When the heck IS Max's birthday anyway? The Roscanon thread

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When the heck IS Max's birthday anyway? The Roscanon thread

Postby Kath7 » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:30 pm

Ladeia asked an excellent question below: is there a central place where people can go for basic information about the canon of the show? As far as I'm aware, no. The closest place are the transcripts on Crashdown, and sometimes we writers just don't have time to troll all the way through them. In the end, the best resource? Our little obsessive selves! lol So, here's a great idea...Bring your questions here.

By the way, what is canon? It means any details that are established on the show, and are, thus indisputable. Example: Isabel's middle name is Amanda. We know this courtesy of her wedding vows in To Have and to Hold, and it is, thus, canon. In fanfic, Max's middle name is often "Phillip," after his adoptive father. This was never mentioned officially in the show, however, and so, is not canon.

And, in answer to my own question...Max's birthday is March 15th. We know this thanks to his driver's license in the Pilot. :D

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Re: When the heck IS Max's birthday anyway? The Roscanon thr

Postby ps_dreamer » Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:23 am

I just want to add something... if you want some solid information on Roswell characters, you can also find them on the multimedia section on the Roswell CD. There's the Roswell maps as well as each character's information (ie biography, favorites, past gf/bf, etc)

:D
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Postby Gioia » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:35 am

Edited 2011 to Add: If any of the links below don't work, Go Here instead.

Hey guys,

Over at PA in our Writers Forum we've been attempting to assemble information such as you described. We've got biographies for the characters, a rather exhaustive list of chads (loose ends the writers didn't clear up) and a few other tidbits either on PA now or in the process of being compiled. So for example, here's what we've got put together for the birthdays. (EmilyluvsRoswell did a majority of the research, and I was assisted by Queenie and Romantic Heart.) It was an eye-opener for me!

We're no longer closed to lurkers, so stop by This Forum for the whole thing, but I'll put the info for the characters ages and such down below.

************

Roswell Characters' Ages & Grades

The birthdays on the show were vague at best, if not butchered in a few cases. However, after researching the heck out of this, it turned out to not be nearly as bad as I anticipated, due to some surprising info on the NM driving laws (see below).

For the record, let me state that I think these are the ages that the show's chads MADE the characters be. I don't think that this is necessarily how old they were INTENDED to be. My guess is that the writers initially decided to make everyone 16 at the start of S1 so that they could drive, without giving any thought to the ramifications of doing that (i.e., they'd all have been held back a grade were that the case).

Thanks so much to EmilyluvsRoswell who wrote much of the following, and to LongTimeFan, Queenie, Robyn and RomanticHeart who all contributed to the research.

AGES:
Michael – unknown: Michael's birthday is never given. All we know for certain is that he's still a minor in February of season 1, because he has to become emancipated.

Max – March 15, 1983: We get Max's date of birth from his driver’s license, which was shown in the pilot. This is supported by Nasedo referring to Max as 17 when he does his Max impression at the end of Season 1.
Conflict: At the arraignment in Busted, Philip was aiming to have Max and Liz tried as minors (if he couldn't get the charges dropped). That would imply Max was under 18. However, Max would have turned 18 in March of season 2. Also, this puts him a year behind in school, although that can be explained by the three podsters being held back a year.

Isabel – October 25, 1982: We have this birthday from the episode “Surprise” and we can also verify the year of her birth based on comments made about her already being "barely legal" - 18 - when she met Jesse.
Conflict: Isabel would have been a year behind in school (again, it is basically assumed the hybrids were held back a year to catch up), and why did the parents and social workers who assumed Max and Isabel were siblings assign them birthdays only 5 months apart?

Tess – May 7, 1983: When Isabel investigates Tess as part of the “Sunshine Committee,” we get a brief glimpse of her file, which tells us her DOB (May 7th,1983), Mother’s name (Sheila Harding) and place of birth (Omaha, Nebraska).
Conflict: Tess would’ve been a year behind in school, like the others, but this could’ve been due both to the time when she emerged from her pod and due to Nasedo’s desire to place her in the same grade as the others when she entered Roswell.

Liz – May 16, 1983 or Sept./Oct. 1983: We base our assumptions on Liz’s age on three things: 1) She was driving in the episode “River Dog,” which would have made her 15 1/2 before November 1999 (See drivers license note below.). 2) Future Max referred to Liz as being 17 in late-October of 2000. 3) The age cut-off for school enrollment (discussed below) is August 31st, so she had to have turned 16 AFTER August 31st, otherwise we assume she was held back a grade. In the books, Liz Parker’s birthday was listed as May 16th. This could work and she could legally be driving in the fall with that date. However, that would make her a year behind in school. The most logical assumption is to place her birthday after August 31st, but before late October. Depending on the exact date, we might also have Liz still under 18 during the start of school for Busted.
Conflict: No conflicts with a birthday between September 1 and late October of 1983. However, the May 16, 1983 makes her 18 at her arraignment in the fall of 2001, where Philip was arguing that she was a minor. Also, a May 1983 date of birth would mean that Liz was a year behind in school but September/October 1983 would have her in the right grade.

Maria – January 1984: Maria turned 18 in January of season 3, because she refers to her birthday in “I Married An Alien,” and then when she is going to have her record demo she says she just turned 18.
Conflict: no major conflicts. (See drivers license note below.)

Alex – June 21, 1984: Alex’s tombstone states: June 21, 1984 - April 29, 2001. We saw him driving in Sexual Healing (February 2000) when he offered to get his car keys to help Isabel look for Max and Liz, which meant he was already at least 15 ½.
Conflict: No major conflicts. (See drivers license note below.)

Kyle – April 30, 1984: Kyle’s birthday was the day after Alex died, meaning April 30th. But we don’t know the year for certain. If we go with a 1984 DOB, Kyle could have been driving at 15 ½ as of October 30th, but not with a car full of guys in the car like we saw in “Blind Date,” due to restrictions on the under-16 permit in New Mexico. (See drivers license note below)
Conflict: no major conflicts.

NEW MEXICO DRIVERS LICENSES:
A very important point to understand as we debate the ages: From what RomanticHeart and I understood in reading the New Mexico Drivers Handbook, it seems like you can get a "Provisional License" when you are 15 1/2, with certain stipulations such as having carried an instructional permit for at least 6 months and driving with no more than one passenger under 21. So Liz, Maria, Kyle and Alex would have been allowed to drive up to one minor around as of the spring, July, October 30th and December 21st, 1999 respectively if we go with a 1984 DOB for them

GRADES:
According to the Roswell School District (which Queenie called for me!), a child must be 5 by midnight of August 31st in order to enter kindergarten that year. This would mean that all of the hybrids were a year behind school, but the humans probably were in the correct grades.

Given the fact that child services had to guess at ages for all the podsters, it’s interesting that they all ended up being in the same class at school. Or maybe that was just a result of how fast they picked up English, etc.

If Max and Isabel started school in 3rd grade, they were clearly home schooled or tutored or something for a while because they were “6” when they came out of the pods, and they’re actually old for their grade. The assumption is that the Evanses kept their kids home for 3 years.

The question is, how was Michael up to speed? Why wasn’t he at least a year behind the Evans kids when it is doubtful anyone took the time to homeschool him? As a loyal fan of Michael’s, I think I’ll stick with the theory that he was so smart (seriously, have you ever even tried to read Ulysses??) that he didn’t need the special tutoring that Max and Isabel needed. LOL!

Tess was obviously stuck in whatever grade the others were in by Nasedo for the purposes of getting to know the others.

The following chart should summarize everything. Because we know nothing about Tess, I have left her off of it. Click on it in order to see it in a more legible size:

Image
Last edited by Gioia on Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:16 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Postby irish2002 » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:54 pm

ALEX: Well, it says right here that shots were fired but no one was injured.

MARIA: Then where's Liz?? I mean, why is she avoiding me?? Okay, first of all, Liz is never late right? She walks into homeroom today, and goes and sits next to Pam Troy. She like, hates Pam Troy and you know like, goes around admitting it openly...and...Alex are you listening to me??


Lorastar, that is the one and only mention of Pam Troy in the show. It's from the Pilot.

-Kate

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Postby TaffyCat » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:56 pm

Gioia wrote:
GRADES:
According to the Roswell School District (which Queenie called for me!), a child must be 5 by midnight of August 31st in order to enter kindergarten that year. This would mean that all of the hybrids were a year behind school, but the humans probably were in the correct grades.

Given the fact that child services had to guess at ages for all the podsters, it’s interesting that they all ended up being in the same class at school. Or maybe that was just a result of how fast they picked up English, etc.


The pod squad were 'apparent' age 6 when found so they were already a year older than most when they started school and would account for them being a year behind.

Gioia wrote:
If Max and Isabel started school in 3rd grade, they were clearly home schooled or tutored or something for a while because they were “6” when they came out of the pods, and they’re actually old for their grade. The assumption is that the Evanses kept their kids home for 3 years.

The question is, how was Michael up to speed? Why wasn’t he at least a year behind the Evans kids when it is doubtful anyone took the time to homeschool him? As a loyal fan of Michael’s, I think I’ll stick with the theory that he was so smart (seriously, have you ever even tried to read Ulysses??) that he didn’t need the special tutoring that Max and Isabel needed. LOL!


I don't agree. Nowhere was it said that Max/Isabel were homeschooled or that they didn't start school as soon as possible. They could have easily been found early in the year ('89) and then started that Aug/Sept. in kindergardten.
Unless I'm forgetting something, all that was mentioned (Pilot) was that Max and Liz were in the 3rd grade when they met. It is just as likely that the Evans moved or they redistricted the school boundries and Max/Isabel had to start at a new school in the 3rd grade. I don't recall anything about Max saying it was the first time he ever set foot in ANY school.

This would also account for Michael being in the same grade as Max/Isabel as well.

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Postby irish2002 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:15 pm

Well Taffycat, part of the great tragedy that is Roswell, is that its doubtful that its writers took nearly as much time to do research as fanfic writers apparently do. There are so many CHADs in the show, many of them revolving around the Pod Squad's early years, thats its most likely that the writers didnt bother to check that their lines about everyone's ages and origin made sense, because they probably figured that they'd just be mentioned once or twice and nothing would ever come of it.

As a result, I don't think any of us should read too much into the little we do know. It'd be silly to disagree on what the writers intended when making up the backstory of those early years, as they most likely didnt put much thought into and there IS no real answer. I mean, even though we have no evidence of it, I personally like to go with the theory that the Evans DID homeschool Max and Isabel. Given what we do know, such as the Evan's personalities, the fact that when found, Max and Isabel didn't know how to speak, feed themselves, etc, and add in Mrs. Evan's comments in Toy House about how Max cried and had nightmares for quite some time after they found him, and I find it extremely doubtful that they sent Max and Isabel to school at the very beginning of that next year. All we know is that SOMETHING happened to make them a year behind. Yes, there are alternative explanations for the grade levels, such as the Evans moving, but we have no evidence of that either, and while that would make a good possible backstory for a fanfic, thats all it is, a possibility. We all have to make our own theories about the early years, based on the little we know for FACT, such as the ages, and when they were found. That's why I'm hoping to find this thread useful.

Now on to my question: I've often wondered about the origins of certain nicknames. EmilyluvsRoswell was able to pinpoint the origin of Hurricane DeLuca for me, and apparently it actually originated in fanfiction, not the show. But how about the nickname Stonewall Guerin? Anybody know if thats just a fanfic cliche, or if it actually ever came up on the show?

-Kate

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Postby Kath7 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:45 pm

Stonewall Guerin is canon...sort of. Maria talks about Michael's "stonewall" in Toy House. He tells her how he can't have attachments. Anyway, I don't think he's ever called Stonewall outright, but it is certainly a metaphor that was used on the show, and I think the resulting nickname can be termed "canonish." :D

I actually love nicknames that come directly from the show in fanfic. It makes it easier to hear the character's "voice" in the writing, I think. Of course, the most used, and most common is "Maxwell" for Max, when Michael's speaking to him. Michael did call Max "Maximillian" a couple of times during Season 1, but that one never seemed to catch on it quite the same way. I think it might have been in BF's delivery of it. It just didn't sound as natural.

The best nickname, by far, EVER, from the show though was when Kyle called Max "El Presidente." That one still cracks me up when I think of it. Hee. Kyle. Followed closely by "Noriega" for Nasedo, of course.

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Postby Calinia » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:24 am

Jeff called Liz "Lizzie" sometimes, for example in "Into the Woods". I don't remember anybody else ever calling her that, but I really don't know.

As for the Chica thing, I don't think that was ever on the show. I went through the transcripts at crashdown.com once with the find-function, and I didn't find it in the first two seasons. Once again, not sure.

I think Liz called Maria "Ria" once, but it was more like her saying Maria really fast so that you hardly heard the "ma" part. I don't know which episode that was though, sorry.
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Postby Kath7 » Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:12 pm

Ladeia3 wrote:Speaking of nicknames.. Did the show ever say whether Max was short for anything?


Nope. Even on his driver's license, his name is simply "Max."

I know in Sexual Healing the transcript says Nesado was the guy that told Max and LIz they were on private property after they spent the night in the desert but does anyone know when Nesado actually made his first appearance where we *knew* it was Nesado?


The shapeshifter made his first OFFICIAL appearance at the end of Independence Day, when he imitated Hank, killed him, then shifted into the Private Property guy. However, he also appeared at the end of Blind Date, although he didn't shift. We knew he was an alien because he brought Isabel and Michael's symbol back to life. Before that, he first made contact with the pod squad in Into the Woods, when he left the symbol there.

Does anyone know if the Max, Michael or Isabel remembered before Tess took Max to the pod chamber that their pods were in a cave or that they needed to do the whole silver handprint thing to get in? (I remember in balance there were flashes of them coming out of a cave but I don't remember if that was just a metaphor in Michael's head or if that was based on real memories?)


Max remembered the cave and remembered leaving Michael behind. He had no memory of Tess when he recounted the story to Liz in Balance. It seemed clear that Max, Michael, and Isabel had no real idea of where to find the cave where the pods were.

Does anyone know if it's canon of the show what the podsters can or can't do? (I mean does it ever specifically say for example that Max tried to dreamwalk but he is not able to do so? Or that Michael tried to do the shield but couldn't ever do it?)


This was never stated as far as I'm aware.

I know I've read in fanfic where Max claims that after the first few times of Tess mindwarping him he knew what it was. He couldn't break it but he knew that it was a mindwarp and just had to wait it out. Does anyone know if that is ever mentioned in the show?


In TLV, when Tess first mindwarped Max, he was definately aware that something was happening to him. He knew that he was not behaving like himself, and that he couldn't control himself around her. He did not know it was a mindwarp, but he was pretty sure that Tess was doing something to his head. He, in fact, stated straight out to first Michael, and then Liz, that Tess was "doing something" to him. He just couldn't explain it, which was why everyone ended up mad at him. :D

I'm sure this is considered canon by now but was it ever verified by any other means other than them assuming that Isabel was Max's sister and Tess was his past life bride?


Not that I know of. They all just assumed that Tess was the bride, and Isabel the sister.

I don't think this ever happened but just to make sure I didn't miss a part, after Departure did anyone ever retranslate the book to make sure they had the complete and correct copy?


Nope. I don't think the book ever came up again after Departure.

Does anyone know if Max or any of the others discuss how they found the orbs or flashes/glowing light trails/glowing hickies Liz got when she kissed/made out Max with Nesado and/or Tess? I don't remember it ever being talked about but since it's been awhile since I've actually seen Season 1 I thought I would double check.


Liz definately mentioned them to Maria in SH, because Maria mentions them back, but I don't think they ever came up again after that episode. There was never an explanation given as far as I recall.

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Postby Kath7 » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:48 pm

irish2002 wrote:Lizzybug, I think everyone just assumes that Hank's last name is Guerin because its Michael's, but considering that we learned in I Married an Alien that Michael had been through several foster homes before ending up with Hank, its a pretty safe bet that Guerin isnt Hank's last name. Actually I'm almost positive Hank's last name is Whitmore (not Whitman like Alex, but Whitmore). I've got a quote lying around here that has Hank referred to as Hank Whitmore, but I haven't figured out what episode its from yet. I'll come back later if I figure it out.

-Kate


I think you're right, Kate. Whitmore sounds VERY familiar. Might it have come from the document Topolsky is carting around about Michael in TMA? I know some people pause on those things and get info off of them.

Kath


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