Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

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Misha
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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by Misha » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:45 pm

As annoying as it is, they still have the right to pull them down / choose who to give permission though... If they only want to be read by a selected few and avoid all kinds of flames, that's their right. They won't reach a broad audience, and will have problems growing as authors if they are bad writers, but it's still their right.

Besides, many-many-many AU fanfics in any fandom are, in fact, original works with the characters' names, so it's no surprising that just by changing a few details here and there, your story stands as a true novel. At least two of our very own Roswellians have done this. I remember when I read what RosDreide's story was about, I could clearly see who was Max, who was Michael, and Liz, and how the Antar background was there. But that's because I know it came from Roswell, so I can see the "source" fairly clearly in this "AU" presentation.

If I were to pick the book without previous knowledge I would probably go as far as getting a "Roswell vibe", and go with it :lol: I'm dying to see how Patroclus76, who wrote The Roswellian Codex, made the changes for the story to stand on its own, though :) He's the other one who turned his story -which was fairly canonish- into an original novel.

Unfortunately for me, I've also picked books that are as poorly written as the majority of fanfiction out there :roll: But for those precious good stories and really good fanfic writers, I do hope they'll get publish some day. They deserve it, and we as readers deserve better books for our money.

You have to consider as well that just because you write fanfiction it doesn't mean you aren't any good, or that your ideas have no value if you rework them a little. If anyone wants to self-publish, you can go to http://www.createspace.com and have it done easy and cheap. No one has to know if you are any good, or if you have an established name on the fanfic world. Of course, if your book is bad, it won't sell too many copies or get good reviews... On the other hand, getting published by a real publisher it's an entire different thing, which we're not discussing here.

But, getting back to the topic, yes, I do believe they have the right to do what they want with their stories, being it delete them, translate them, change them into original works and being snobbish about it. I will probably never pick another story by the author who "burned" me, so it's the author's loss. One less reader for them.
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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by Heavenli24 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:11 pm

RoswellOracle wrote:Not really seeing the difference. If it is pulled, it is pulled, and for whatever reason the story is no longer able to be read.
That's true, but I do find it pretty mean-spirited to pull the stories at the height of their popularity just because they can. I've heard that a good number of the best Twilight fics only stay online for about a month after they've been finished before the authors pull them... it's become a trend; one author does it, so the rest follow because they think it will make them seem above everyone else and it gives them the control. It's such a different way of doing things compared to the other fandoms I've been in (Roswell, Buffy) that it seems wrong to me. There are so many Twilight fics that I've heard rave reviews about, but when I go to read them, they are no longer online and it's such a shame - surely it's damaging the fandom by depriving it of the good stories and leaving behind the bad ones?!
RoswellOracle wrote:All of it just seems silly to me. What is the point of writing for an online audience if you don't want it read by other fans?
Yeah, that's my reaction too - why bother posting it in the first place, if you're going to delete it as soon as it becomes popular?

It's almost like a TV studio pulling a show partway through a season and telling the TV viewers they can only watch the rest if the creator knows them personally :P.
Misha wrote:As annoying as it is, they still have the right to pull them down / choose who to give permission though... If they only want to be read by a selected few and avoid all kinds of flames, that's their right. They won't reach a broad audience, and will have problems growing as authors if they are bad writers, but it's still their right.
Yeah, it is their right, but I get the feeling that some of the authors aren't just pulling their fics because they don't want people to read them (or because they've had problems with reviewers), but because it's some kind of a popularity contest... it shows your popularity and power over others in the fandom if you are 'forced' to pull your stories from the internet because you have so many fans that it's getting out of hand :roll: ! As soon as you pull the fic, then the readers are jumping up and down and are all over you because they want the privilege of being let into the 'clique' of people who are allowed to read the story... they can finally be in the 'in crowd'. That kind of thing just doesn't seem morally right to me and it makes me feel that the whole concept of/reason for writing fanfic and being in a fandom community is being twisted around.

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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by nibbles2 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:39 pm

There are so many Twilight fics that I've heard rave reviews about, but when I go to read them, they are no longer online and it's such a shame - surely it's damaging the fandom by depriving it of the good stories and leaving behind the bad ones?!
Yes, but they're rave reviews by people who like twilight! :lol:

It seems like a fairly stupid way to run a fandom and it reeks of immaturity. I think you're right about it being a popularity slash publicity stunt for authors to create buzz about their fics and to attract readers and kudos. Maybe it's a phase and they'll get bored of it as the community develops.

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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by Misha » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:16 pm

That reminds me of our "holding a fanfic hostage" rule. I'm so used to coming here and knowing no fic will ever be held hostage until certain amount of feedback is given, that when I go to other sites and see the authors blatantly asking for X number of reviews or else no more story, I'm stunned :shock:

Leave it to the twifans to come up with new ways to baffle us... :lol:

Let us hope the fandom will grow up. It's absurdly hard to find any new read there to begin with, that sometimes it's just not worth the trouble :roll:
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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by Heavenli24 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:56 am

nibbles2 wrote:Yes, but they're rave reviews by people who like twilight! :lol:
:lol: good point! Part of my problem with all this is that I don't really like Twilight all that much, but I really wanted to read some new fics and since the fandom there is massive, I figured there would be lots of choice (I only read the AU Human fics). Well, I guess there is lots of choice, but a lot of it is nowhere near as good as the Roswell stories :(.
nibbles2 wrote:It seems like a fairly stupid way to run a fandom and it reeks of immaturity. I think you're right about it being a popularity slash publicity stunt for authors to create buzz about their fics and to attract readers and kudos. Maybe it's a phase and they'll get bored of it as the community develops.
I hope so, for the sake of the reputation of fanfiction! With such a massive community (Twilighted.net has almost 140,000 members and close to 3,000 authors), fanfic is on the radar for a lot of people who had never heard of it before and it's becoming more known in the media, but the immaturity of that fandom is going to give the concept a bad name.
Misha wrote:That reminds me of our "holding a fanfic hostage" rule. I'm so used to coming here and knowing no fic will ever be held hostage until certain amount of feedback is given, that when I go to other sites and see the authors blatantly asking for X number of reviews or else no more story, I'm stunned :shock:
Yeah, that's my problem with it - not whether the authors have the right to pull their work (because they can do that if they like), but for the reasons they are pulling it.

There is a lot of review-begging in Twific - there's even a 5-page topic in the Twilighted forum entitled 'Begging for Reviews 101' which gives tips on how to get the most reviews. Authors bribe readers with teasers if they review or ask off-topic questions to be answered in the review so they'll get more replies (i.e. something like 'well, that was Edward's favourite childhood memory, what's yours?'). I sent a review to an author a couple of weeks ago telling her how much I was enjoying her story and also mentioning a slight error in a date within the part - I got back a thank you reply from her and at the bottom she said: 'as promised, here's a teaser for the next chapter:'. I almost wrote back to her and said that I didn't review because I wanted a teaser (I actually sent the review before the teaser was promised) and that she didn't need to do that because that's not why I reviewed (I don't read spoilers or teasers anyway, because I prefer to read the entire part in one go when it's posted).
Let us hope the fandom will grow up. It's absurdly hard to find any new read there to begin with, that sometimes it's just not worth the trouble :roll:
I'm beginning to see that! I have found a few good fics in the fandom, but a lot of them I just get bored with. Twific is still in the stage where smutty, adult stories are really popular and if there's no sex in a fic, it will not get many reviews.

I read an amazing story a few months ago which was incredible for the first twenty chapters before the main characters got together, but as soon as they started sleeping together the fic degenerated into about 10,000 words of smut and just 1,000 words of plot every chapter! It took another 45 chapters to finish the story, when the plot could have been resolved in about 10 chapters if all the sex was taken out (the whole thing is over 600,000 words long, more than double the length of the longest Harry Potter book, but most of it is smut!) :P.

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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by Sundae » Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:43 pm

Hmm...I wonder if the authors are doing that partly because of Stephenie Meyer's own view on plagiarism and general abuse of her story.

I thought it was rather (umm...silly) for her to not write the fifth book in series because someone leaked her chapters. From what I read, apparently the fifth book was not really new plot material anyway, it was suppose to be Edwards view from the beginning; which to me is an extremely unique perspective of Stephenie Meyer's herself that if you "take" the words, it would be hard not to notice that it wasn't stolen.

I understand her feelings of being "crushed" and saddened in that she wanted the readers to experience it after it was published, but to me, it felt odd. Not all readers abuse fiction in that way. If someone is truly a die hard fan, I would think they would wait to read the story when the book comes out than try to read a "drafted" version of a couple of chapters that may or may not make the final cut. At least's that how I am.

To me, those that would rather read a drafted version are kinda not necessarily in love with the idea of Twilight itself but maybe in love with a couple, or a certain character that they try to find everything there is to know about that character or relationship. Besides, there is no art that in some way, shape of form cannot be abused. If it is, I would think that it's not very good in the first place.

Plus I highly doubt it would affect her sales, if you truly are a twilight fanatic, you would rather own a copy of the books than not.

But regardless...to me it feels like the authors are reacting strongly to plagiarism etc. because Stephanie Meyer' herself reacted that way. Somehow they feel justified and they feel that by pulling stories etc. they are "raising" themselves up onto a platform that is on the same level or somewhere close to Stephanie Myers herself. (A Godly platform eh? :lol: )

IDK...Roswell is the only fandom I participate in. For some reason it is the only fandom that truly appeals to me to a creative extent and I think its partly because of the way the series ended. It ended abruptly and it left so many plot holes etc...that the possibilities are absolutely endless in someways; that and the relationships between our couples were anchored so regardless where a fic takes you, in the end its your main couple even if it ends in a bad way...so all this is coming from someone that hasn't read any twilight fan fiction.

I don't think I could read twilight fics...I mean I was so frustrated with the books themselves that having "immature" authors attempt it would seem like a nightmare. Plus I never truly saw the chemistry between Edward and Bella, I saw a little between Jake and Bella, but even that was sour in some ways. I think the only true chemistry was maybe Japer/Alice for me.

The books were not to my taste at all, but I guess it does make me curious if other authors can do better, and I'm sure they could cause if I was to re-write the books, 70% of the things would change in the book for me. lol :lol:
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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by Heavenli24 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:56 pm

Sundae wrote:Hmm...I wonder if the authors are doing that partly because of Stephenie Meyer's own view on plagiarism and general abuse of her story.

I thought it was rather (umm...silly) for her to not write the fifth book in series because someone leaked her chapters. From what I read, apparently the fifth book was not really new plot material anyway, it was suppose to be Edwards view from the beginning; which to me is an extremely unique perspective of Stephenie Meyer's herself that if you "take" the words, it would be hard not to notice that it wasn't stolen.

I understand her feelings of being "crushed" and saddened in that she wanted the readers to experience it after it was published, but to me, it felt odd. Not all readers abuse fiction in that way. If someone is truly a die hard fan, I would think they would wait to read the story when the book comes out than try to read a "drafted" version of a couple of chapters that may or may not make the final cut. At least's that how I am.

To me, those that would rather read a drafted version are kinda not necessarily in love with the idea of Twilight itself but maybe in love with a couple, or a certain character that they try to find everything there is to know about that character or relationship. Besides, there is no art that in some way, shape of form cannot be abused. If it is, I would think that it's not very good in the first place.

Plus I highly doubt it would affect her sales, if you truly are a twilight fanatic, you would rather own a copy of the books than not.

But regardless...to me it feels like the authors are reacting strongly to plagiarism etc. because Stephanie Meyer' herself reacted that way. Somehow they feel justified and they feel that by pulling stories etc. they are "raising" themselves up onto a platform that is on the same level or somewhere close to Stephanie Myers herself. (A Godly platform eh? :lol: )
Those are some really good points - it really does make sense for the views of the Twilight fans to mirror SM's in regards to plagiarism and pulling fics. I never really understood why she didn't just complete Midnight Sun and publish it - I'm sure it would sell just as well as the other books, in fact I bet that readers would be excited to read the finished copy after only being able to read a few chapters so far.
Sundae wrote:IDK...Roswell is the only fandom I participate in. For some reason it is the only fandom that truly appeals to me to a creative extent and I think its partly because of the way the series ended. It ended abruptly and it left so many plot holes etc...that the possibilities are absolutely endless in someways; that and the relationships between our couples were anchored so regardless where a fic takes you, in the end its your main couple even if it ends in a bad way...so all this is coming from someone that hasn't read any twilight fan fiction.
I read fics in the Buffyverse for several years before I found Roswell fic, but once I found this site, I didn't look back :P. A lot of the Buffy stories were short post-episode 'fix-it' fics or fics putting Buffy and Angel back together after he got the spin-off show. However, I found Roswell fics so well thought-out and so intriguing that it only took a few months for me to abandon the Buffyverse for Roswell!
Sundae wrote:I don't think I could read twilight fics...I mean I was so frustrated with the books themselves that having "immature" authors attempt it would seem like a nightmare. Plus I never truly saw the chemistry between Edward and Bella, I saw a little between Jake and Bella, but even that was sour in some ways. I think the only true chemistry was maybe Japer/Alice for me.
I deliberately only read AU-Human Twilight fics because in those stories, Bella and Edward can be whoever you want them to be - you can give them chemistry and make them different from the books. However, I have noticed that the fandom puts a lot of restriction on keeping things canon - even in AU stories, the characters shouldn't be too different from canon and not become too out of character. Canon stories must fit within a specific set of guidelines otherwise they are not considered canon. Applying those rules to Roswell fics would mean that almost all our CC fics would probably have to be reclassified as AU fics!
Sundae wrote:The books were not to my taste at all, but I guess it does make me curious if other authors can do better, and I'm sure they could cause if I was to re-write the books, 70% of the things would change in the book for me. lol :lol:
Lol - yeah, I have a weird love-hate relationship with the books - they drew me in, but I didn't actually like them all that much (there were too many things I found wrong with them)!

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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by trulov » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:00 am

Sundae wrote:The books were not to my taste at all, but I guess it does make me curious if other authors can do better, and I'm sure they could cause if I was to re-write the books, 70% of the things would change in the book for me. lol :lol:
Heavenli24 responded
Lol - yeah, I have a weird love-hate relationship with the books - they drew me in, but I didn't actually like them all that much (there were too many things I found wrong with them)!
:lol:
Last edited by trulov on Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by Behrsgirl77 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:58 pm

Wow! I just stumbled upon this topic, while looking to post a request elsewhere. I have to say I have read all of your comments and with respects to the fact that while I enjoyed "Twilight" I have no desire to run out and read fanfic from that fandom.

I don't know why, maybe I'm just good that there was a happy ending, whereas in Roswell there was but there was also so much unfinished (as someone else pointed out).

I started writing years ago, reading for much longer, and honestly I've been on the receiving end of bashing, via feedback on the board and via PM's...and yeah while they pissed me off because some of it was just hurtful; I dusted myself off and continued and finished my fics. I didn't pull them, for the simple fact that if I had what would it have accomplished? The only person to gain from such an action would be the person that "persuaded" me to do so. If you write, and you consider yourself a writer and you choose the online medium of doing so...why pull a story because of a fit you're having?

I myself found that throughout the years my stories were posted on sites I had no prior knowledge that someone was copy and pasting them there...it irritated me because it would have been nice if they asked first (and MOST did) but I didn't pull my fics because of it. It's online, I had to conceive for just a moment that someone would take it, no?

After all, the stories plots and ideas might all be mine, the characters of Max and Liz aren't...and I keep that in mind.

You write for yourself, and you post for others to read, right? You don't post for feedback (it's nice to receive of course) but there is no obligation to do so, which is why I love this board and am still here.

*hope I wasn't too off topic!*

Tanya

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Re: Pulling fanfics from the internet - your opinions?

Post by Roswellian117 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:19 am

I am going to put my 2 cents in here because I agree with a lot of what people are saying.

At first I really loved Twilight and the originality of it or so I thought. Vampire Diaries was actually what started it but that's besides the point here! I think a lot of what appeals to the twi-tards is the love that Bella and Edward have for one another but unfortunately they are young and don't get that Max and Liz were really there before that. The writers here are RF have a higher understanding of something special thus expressing themselves through the written word in innovative and creative ways.

The twi-tards seem to just copy what they read in the books and that isn't creative. A lot of them are children over there and we have to remember that. A lot of us are in our mid-20's, 30's, 40's and so on. If Roswell was brought back as a new show now the younger crowd would love it. Then we would be flooded with pre-teens screaming over team max and team kyle! LOL.

As for the pulling of fics... I think if someone gives you a bad review oh well... Why let ONE person effect your life and story. Don't pull a fic because someone said that chapter sucked. As for plagiarism... The fondest form of flattery is imitation... It's not like the fics at Twi-Tard are like so amazing that they are reread. I can say that I have reread so many stories for Roswell, HP and The Tudors more than anything at Twi-Tarded... Sorry but they annoy me sometimes with their stupidness.

That's all I really have to say.

~Vanessa

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