Supernautral

[valentinebaby]

WTF! Okay all week I've been excited cause YAY ANNA'S COMING BACK! No no no no no they turned her into a complete psycho. And Michael oh well all I have to say is he's a manipulative, lying, sack of angel shit. I'm sorry but if free will doesn't exist then why do they need Dean and Sam to say yes so bad?

And will someone please explain the Glenn Close reference because I didn't get it.

[jake17]

WTF! Okay all week I've been excited cause YAY ANNA'S COMING BACK! No no no no no they turned her into a complete psycho. And Michael oh well all I have to say is he's a manipulative, lying, sack of angel shit. I'm sorry but if free will doesn't exist then why do they need Dean and Sam to say yes so bad?

Ang,

yeah you weren't the only one that was upset by Anna's return. I wasn't happy about what they did at all. And to have Michael turn out to be what you so perfectly described as "a manipulative, lying, sack of angel shit" was disappointing to say the least. I agree with you one hundred percent...

And will someone please explain the Glenn Close reference because I didn't get it.

OK I'm trying to remember who said it to who... I believe Dean said it in reference to Anna? What they were talking about was the movie Glen Close stared in called "Fatal Attraction" IN the movie she has an affair with Michael Douglas, a married man... when he tries to end the affair she goes completely insane and attacks the family. "total nutcase"

One of the things she does is boils the family pet bunny! yes its true!

So I believe he was comparing her character to Anna's current state...

if I'm wrong please somebody come on and correct me, I'm not totally sure that's who the reference was for...

Still with everything I loved Cass.
and how Dean is with him.

Dean says talking about Cass...

"he's tough for a nerdy little guy with wings"

Cass is an awsome character...

hope I was some help Ang.

Carrie

[Earth2Mama]

I have it on my DVR so I'll be watching it tonight after Smallville. I can't wait!

[valentinebaby]

OK I'm trying to remember who said it to who... I believe Dean said it in reference to Anna? What they were talking about was the movie Glen Close stared in called "Fatal Attraction" IN the movie she has an affair with Michael Douglas, a married man... when he tries to end the affair she goes completely insane and attacks the family. "total nutcase"

One of the things she does is boils the family pet bunny! yes its true!

So I believe he was comparing her character to Anna's current state...

if I'm wrong please somebody come on and correct me, I'm not totally sure that's who the reference was for...

Still with everything I loved Cass.
and how Dean is with him.

Dean says talking about Cass...

"he's tough for a nerdy little guy with wings"

Cass is an awsome character...

hope I was some help Ang.

Carrie

Yeah big help, I so need to see that movie and yeah Dean was comparing her to Anna.

I love love love love Cass, and you're right the interaction with Cass and Dean is great. I'd really like to see Misha Collins in more things, he really is an amazing actor.

[OrangeSky]

I actually didn't mind what they did with Anna, largely because there was a moment right before she hurts Sam where she says, "I'm really sorry about this", or something like that. Anna didn't want to kill Sam and Dean and their parents, but she was looking at a larger picture. To her, if Sam had never been born, then the world wouldn't have been in such turmoil. There wouldn't be the fighting and the destruction and hellfire and brimstone. So for Anna, the choice to kill a couple of people makes sense for her larger picture. She wants the fighting to stop, she wants the world to be safe, and the only way she can put an end to it herself is to kill Mary and John.

Though I didn't buy his spiel on free will, I didn't mind Michael either. What we've learned over time in the Supernatural 'Verse is that all humans don't act alike, and so all angels don't act alike and all demons don't act alike. Cas stands in striking contrast to all other angels we know, because he admires qualities in Dean, and has come to be his friend. (And Sam's.) Angels do not strictly admire qualities in humans, because there is no reason for them to. Angels are nearly perfect beings. But remember, even Cas was like that in the beginning. He didn't choose to pull Dean out of hell, he was told to. He was towing the company line. I think, for the most part, Michael was telling the truth. To him, the issue is very black and white. He knows what he has to do, he knows what he needs to get it done, and he's just speaking to the inevitability of it all. To Michael, this will happen. Remember, this has happened to him in some way before. He was responsible for banishing Lucifer and so he knows he's the only one strong enough to do it again. Black and white. This is why he killed Anna in the end. She was trying to stop something that Michael truly believes has to happen. And I think that's what his whole deal with free will is grounded in: he truly believes Dean has absolutely no choice in the matter. Is he right? I don't know. But remember: angels aren't perfect.

I think that what's most interesting here is that both sides are trying to destroy the other, but really, they wouldn't exist without the other side. If everyone were good, there would be no such thing. The idea of being good would lose value because there would be no alternative. And the same goes for evil. Really, what they're trying to create is a place of sameness.

Man, does that sound paralyzingly awful.

[Earth2Mama]

I saw very few snipits of last night's episode because I'm forever going to be tormented by watching Grey's (please, don't laugh at my expense or curse me for doing so - Its wrong and I know it but it can't be helped). But like I mentioned before, I DVR'ed it last night, so I will be watch it in it entirety tonight.

So far from what I've read here, it was an episode that truly needed to be watched. The last thing I saw was the boys talking to their mom after they had revealed themselves as her sons and told her she needed to walk away from John, thus preventing their births. I was kinda pissed that they even suggested it at first, but then I saw the logic in it for them. In the end, it didn't matter ... especially when she admitted to already being pregnant (of course it's Dean and I couldn't help love the look on his face when she revealed that). It was like he got it in some way. No matter what do to try to change the past, it will always end up the same.

[OrangeSky]

That moment when Dean just bit the bullet and said he was her son the look on Mary's face killed me. She didn't want to believe it, but she grew up a hunter and I think a part of her knew he wasn't lying, even if it seemed illogical. And when Dean was explaining everything she did for him when he was a little boy...man...you can see the heartbreak and realization and wonder in her eyes. I think if she hadn't already been pregnant with Dean, she probably would have stayed with John anyway, especially after finding out the two men standing in front of her were them, and that she'd never know them at that age, that she'd only have them for a brief time. I'm not sure she would have really been willing to give up what she'd have with Dean as a little boy.

And the conversation between Sam and his dad? Oh man. You can see a direct reflection of a younger Sam in the younger version of his father, and Sam I think really realized that, for the first time. Neither of them really wanted this life, and I think Sam felt a little vindicated when his dad says, "What kind of father would do this to his kids?", something Sam had felt for years and years. I think in this episode we truly see that Sam is like his father and Dean is like his mother.

Another interesting thing about Michael I hadn't really thought about until now was the moment he made a correlation between his relationship with Lucifer and Dean's with Sam. Michael, the older brother, had to smite Lucifer, the younger brother, not because he wanted to, but because it was necessary. It was something that had to be done. He wants Dean to see his side, obviously, but he also doesn't care if he does. Michael knows it will all happen the way it's supposed to, because it's all happened before and that's the way it is supposed to happen. (Sort of circular logic, but that's the way Michael operates in some ways, I think.) He also mentioned that it all started with Cain and Abel, and that it's in Dean's bloodline. Interesting, because Cain was the elder, "evil" brother and Abel was the younger, "good" brother. And in that case, evil kills good.

I felt bad for Cas in this episode. I lot of transferring himself and others to another time line and then being knocked out afterward.

(And is anyone else a little distracted by the obvious age discrepancy of their parents from when Dean will be born to when Sam is born? It's not a huge thing, but no way we go from Matt Cohen as John to Jeffrey Dean Morgan as John in, like, three years. Not to mention the change in Marys.)

[Earth2Mama]

The Sam/John conversation was another snipit I saw. When John was aksing "What kind of father subjects his kids to this way of life"


I was screaming in my head "You! You did you ass."

[Earth2Mama]

O.k. Saw the epi and wow! Lots of stuff going on but I'm just going to mention this - because it's the question that Sam and Dean left off with ...


Free will. Both Sam and Dean refused Lucifer and Michael the use of themselves as their one true vessels. However, both Lucifer and Michael assured Sam and Dean that they would both change their minds and agree. In fact, they were positive they would. Sam then went on to mention that Dad agreed, all Michael had to do was use Mom as an excuse. Then Sam told Dean, wouldn't you do it to save Mom? And by the look on Dean's face, of course, we know he would have.


So, my question is this - how will Lucifer and Michael convince the Winchester boys in the end to let them be used as vessels?

[NotYourChick]

The boys willing to not live just so their mom could. Almost made me cry. They love her so much.

John - I think I'm so used to to him as how he is older.