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Stargazers and the myth of NC-17

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:21 am
by vegas312
I'm not sure if this is the right spot for it, but I figure what the heck. If not then I apologize to the mods. :oops:

I've noticed lately that there are a lot of stargazer fics popping up and I'm so overjoy, but there's something I noticed as well. Compared to other shippers a lot of our fics are mostly PG-13 or R, but there's only a few NC-17s while other shippers have tons. My question is why are there so few stargazers fics rated NC-17? I'm not complaining, nor am I a horndog, but I am curious as to why. What do you guys think the reason is why?

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:33 am
by cardinalgirl
Well selfishly, I love the trend. lol I don't read NC-17 stuff out of personal preference, and I love my Alex and Isabel, as you all know, so the fact that it's usually PG-13 is wonderful for me.

Really, though, I think the main reason that it's not NC-17 most of the time is the "gentleman" figure that Alex had on the show, and also because... well, it wasn't about the physical relationship for Alex and Isabel. The whole point about Alex and Isabel was that he didn't see her just as some physical conquest. He saw everything beyond that. The PG-13 fics reflect that. :wink:

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:22 am
by truelovepooh
ok I think Lisa has a point but flipping to the other side of coin, I think MOST people see Isabel and Alex as a romantic couple and very sweet, but that goes along with thinking that sweet can't be sexual, I realize the 2 don't go hand in hand most times, but being sweet, or a "gentleman" does not mean you can not enjoy sex or anything about it.

Yes it's true Alex didn't see Isabel "that way" but once they get past the newness of the relationship , I don't think it's a bad thing for Alex to feel that way about her, SHE did pull him into the ER right? in fanfic we have the option of doing something the show did not allow us to do and that was put them together how we see fit, that being said I LOVE all gazer fics, yes every single one, there is not does not matter to me, PG-13, R, nc-17, it's all good :)

I hope that made some since, it's 3 am here..if not I will come back :wink:

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:47 am
by femmenerd
OK, so my brain is shot since it's really late and I have been chatting with Pooh for a while (about this topic partially).

Now, while I think that it's just fine and dandy for people to not want to read and write NC17 if that's not your thing, I think that it's too bad when people say that they can't imagine Alex and Isabel having sex because they are too "sweet."

Here's the problem with that - it basically means that "sweet" or "nice" people can't be passionate and sexual beings. I also think that it's really important to note that a man can be "gentlemanly" about his desire. Sex is so much more than just bodies. It is possibly to not only be interested in someone for their mind as well as their body, but also for these two things to fuse - a physical attraction can be enhanced by a mental and emotional bond and vice versa.

On a somewhat related note, I really like the portrayal of Alex in Tasyfa's story "Splitscreen." It's a dreamer story (and I'm mostly a dreamer lol) but it has this hilarious part where Alex counsels the other boys about certain, erm, ways of the world and it's so great. It shows that "nice boys" can be "dirty" without it debasing or taking away from their niceness and respect for women.

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:43 am
by Sternbetrachter
nice topic, Cam :D

since it was mentioned that it might be hard for others to picture A/I in a NC 17 story, I can't picture M/L having sex (okay, I'm not even trying to) even though there are many stories with that *shrug*

Alex and Isabel might be the innocent ones but we all know that still waters are deep :twisted:

if you are interested in a story where A/I explore their sexual relationship together, then read this: ... =305.topic

it's called "Alex, Isabel and Company" and they are on their way to sex and Alex still is a gentleman, or like he himself once said "I'm the innocent one in this relationship"

It's a great and huge story - read it! You'll enjoy it!

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:33 am
by Applebylicious
I admit to being one of the people who had a hard time imagining Alex and Isabel in a sexual relationship. :oops: Mostly, this was due more to the fact that I saw Alex as a brotherly figure, and I ain't even trying to think about my brother having the sex. :lol:

But I've tried reading a few Gazer NC17 fics by Pooh, and I enjoyed them. I've mostly revised my opinion so that now I can definitely see it, but that I think there usually needs to be this level of sweetness, of friendship beneath the lovemaking. If that makes any sense? :? I don't see Alex and Isabel screwing for the hell of it. PWP wouldn't work...for me. There has to be that connection existing between them. It's what draws me to that ship in the first place. :) I'm not saying A/I smut can't be done, but it takes a hell of an author to make me believe it. Luckily, there are a few out there. :D

hugs, Lindsay

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:33 am
by StarGazing101
I never found it hard to imagine Alex and Isabel in a sexual relationship. I have observed many different types of relationship in my years of lurking in the shadows and being an intellectual outcast at my school. Couples with the least amount of chemistry and "innocent" relationships like Alex and Isabel (which are very rare) can enjoy and appreciate sexual avenues.

The lack of NC-17 in Gazer-dom is not surprising, though. I know that many cannot not see our couple having sex or, for that matter, understand why they're together; but I don't believe either of these reasonings are it for some of us, obviously.

If you notice, many Stargazer writers can still explore boulevards (What's with me and streets today?) others haven't, because of Isabel and Alex's genre of relationship (without it being AU). For that matter, we become, like any writer, immersed in our plots. I think that somehow in these storylines we are lost in the growing and developing of their relationship because, to have readers, we need to make it believable. Therefore, a good percentage of us do not feel the need to go down the road that explores a sexual relationship when we can obviously weave a story of our own without needing to draw in readers with foreplay and passionate rendezvous.

The other very obvious reason: some cannot write a passionate scene if our life depended on it, and-or some prefer not to post love-making/sexual scenes because they are too embarrassed to do so.

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:43 pm
by femmenerd
Well, I'll admit, like Lindsay, that I hadn't really given extensive thought to Alex and Isabel's sex life before reading some of Pooh's stuff. However, that's not to say that I didn't think that they had or could have one.

As I said to Pooh yesterday, just because they don't get MY juices flowing as much doesn't mean that they can't get their own (or other people's) going.

I just think it's weird to say that Alex and Isabel shouldn't have sex or that writing NC 17 about sweetie pie characters doesn't make sense. I mean, nice, innocent people have hormones too. :D
I've mostly revised my opinion so that now I can definitely see it, but that I think there usually needs to be this level of sweetness, of friendship beneath the lovemaking. If that makes any sense?
That makes a lot of sense Lindsay, because no matter what the fic is about, the characters should ring true. The sweetness and friendship angle is definitely the vibe we got from them on the show and it would probably be out of character to show them behaving in ways that other people would. I just don't think that it's an oxymoron for sweetness and friendship to go right along with hot sex. In general.

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:29 pm
by truelovepooh
As much as I love the attention :wink: I'm not the only stargazer who writes nc-17, there is a few who are very good...this whole thread idea came from a convo Cam and I had last nite, strangely enough about my wariness in writing a Max/Liz nc-17 scene, I joked and said I needed to go read some stargazer nc-17 and she asked me where we could find it...then we realized there is not alot of it, alot of great stargazer stories but not the nc-17 kind (not that we are horn dogs but you know)

I think it's a matter of what the person themselves feels comfortable reading.The question posed here is one I think we could all answer differently, depending on how we see them as a couple, I agree totally with femmenerd as well as Lindsay and Kay :)

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:25 pm
by cardinalgirl
I didn't want to make it sound like I didn't think that Alex and Isabel could be sexy couple... if you put it that way. I totally think they could as much as the other couples (which I also don't read NC-17 fics of. lol) I don't think at all that "sweet" and "sexy" have to be mutually exclusive at all.

After all, the saying is "gentlemen don't tell," not "gentlemen don't do." :wink: