Discussion: Alex or Isabel

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Aurorabee
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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby Aurorabee » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:19 pm

I was always an Alex person, basically for all the reasons stated above. Isabel was probably the least interesting character to me in the actual show. I've only recently started reading Stargazer fics and through StargazerUK's writing I've come to a new appreciation for Isabel. I've read all of those available though (*sniffle*), so I'm about to delve more into the recommendation threads here (thanks, by the way!).

So basically, if push came to shove, I'd still lunge for Alex, but I'm definitely more sympathetic to Isabel now than before.

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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby Rowedog » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:28 pm

cardinalgirl wrote:That's what's so great about them. I don't feel like I have to pick a side. I'm totally on their side. If I come to Isabel's defense more often... it's just because I feel like less people do. And that Alex doesn't really need me. Because... he's Alex. Hee. :P


Exactly. That's the way I feel.

I find it easier to write Isabel because I believe that she was the more complex character, well not complex, I guess 'more screwed up' would fit better there. Alex was so decent, so wonderful and loyal, that I kinda got the impression that Isabel felt that she didn't deserve him a lot of the time and that she was trying to keep him out of the alien madness by pushing him away. I could be totally wrong about that, but it's just my opinion.

Given the insecurities that Isabel often showed, wanting closeness and openness with her mother, her frosty exterior that she hides behind, I kinda find it easier to base a fic around her because there's so much to draw from. I don't condone the way that she treated Alex, but I guess under closer scrutiny of her character I could understand it better.

That being said, Alex is my favourite character in the show, I just like to write Isabel a bit more. :roll: Yeah, I'm a tad contrary.
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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby vegas312 » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:46 pm

I got to admit that I've been following this discussion every since it was posted, and it took me awhile to figure out what I wanted to say. To choose between Alex and Isabel is hard for me because I like them not only as a couple but as individuals as well. I find myself being able to identify with both characters and the thing I've always loved most about this coupling is the simple fact that they were portrayed as flawed.

I mean yeah they're no stare in my eyes Max and Liz, or even as passionate as Michael and Maria, but I loved the fact they were indeed flawed and to me that was realistic. I know others disagree as to the way Isabel treated Alex throughout most of season two by pretty much dating Grant when she had just told Alex she wasn't ready for a relationship. You know I got to admit that I agree with killjoy in that I loved how Alex's attitude when he came back from Sweden, but I've always thought Isabel pushed Alex away not because she didn't want to be with him rather she wasn't ready for the mature relationship that I think she would have gotten from Alex. He was always portrayed as this guy throughout most of the show who was loyal, caring, loving, and one heck of a gentlemen if you will. To me he looked past all of Isabel's superficial bullshit and saw who she really was and I think she was just too afraid to do anything about. Again the realistic aspect of the relationship between the two of them that I'd loved so much.

Rowedog wrote:
I find it easier to write Isabel because I believe that she was the more complex character, well not complex, I guess 'more screwed up' would fit better there. Alex was so decent, so wonderful and loyal, that I kinda got the impression that Isabel felt that she didn't deserve him a lot of the time and that she was trying to keep him out of the alien madness by pushing him away. I could be totally wrong about that, but it's just my opinion.


Sums up exactly what I want to say. To choose between the two is so hard, and as Lisa so beautifully put it, why choose a side at all.

cardinalgirl wrote:
That's what's so great about them. I don't feel like I have to pick a side. I'm totally on their side. If I come to Isabel's defense more often... it's just because I feel like less people do. And that Alex doesn't really need me. Because... he's Alex. Hee


Right on sister, right on.

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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby killjoy » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:49 pm

Ok granted in fanfiction Isabel is a more fun character to write about.She's complex with all her insecurites you can build on.

But to be honest I wasn't very fond of Isabel on the show.I think she was a user who played on Alex's feelings for her.The way she let Alex have what he wanted most....a relationship with her...and than to just break up with him by giving him that lame speech only to just turn around and start dating Grant was evil.I've read what many Isabel supporters have stated here on that subject but I don't buy it.It was nothing more than just a cold hearted evil thing to do.To me it was a part of Isabel's selfish Vilandra side coming out to play.

I think Isabel,Liz and everyone else should have been thankfull that Alex was such a nice guy that he'd put up with all their crap.He could have easily talked to Tolposky or to Jim in season one or he could have just said to hell with Isabel in season two.They're lucky he was such a decent guy to still care for them and want to help them after the crap they put him through.

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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby truelovepooh » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:37 pm

Ok granted in fanfiction Isabel is a more fun character to write about.She's complex with all her insecurites you can build on.

But to be honest I wasn't very fond of Isabel on the show.I think she was a user who played on Alex's feelings for her.The way she let Alex have what he wanted most....a relationship with her...and than to just break up with him by giving him that lame speech only to just turn around and start dating Grant was evil.I've read what many Isabel supporters have stated here on that subject but I don't buy it.It was nothing more than just a cold hearted evil thing to do.To me it was a part of Isabel's selfish Vilandra side coming out to play.

I think Isabel,Liz and everyone else should have been thankfull that Alex was such a nice guy that he'd put up with all their crap.He could have easily talked to Tolposky or to Jim in season one or he could have just said to hell with Isabel in season two.They're lucky he was such a decent guy to still care for them and want to help them after the crap they put him through.



I believe it's all in one's perception of each character, I like to write Isabel not because of her 'insecurities' but because of her hidden depths. I didn't see her as a 'user' but as a person who thought she was doing things for a reason and sometimes it didn't work out the right way. I saw her pushing Alex away to save him the heart ache of maybe losing her when and if she had to leave the planet and because he would be the one guy to really see her from the inside out and at 17 or hell any age that can be very scary. Alex was a nice guy and IMO it's because he was such a nice guy that he did all the things he did and loved Isabel for simply being herself.

Again this is just a perception thing, I think we can all agree that it's all in how you look at it.
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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby killjoy » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:23 pm

Ok maybe user is too strong of word.

But I do think she toyed with Alex's feelings why to much.I also think had it been a guy doing this to a woman many of the females on this board wouldn't be so supportive of the character than :P :lol: .

But I do think it was VERY wrong with what she did with the whole Grant thing.If she was not ready for a strong relationship or scared on how serious she and Alex was getting and wanted to break up with him.....well fine.But don't give him that speech she did and than suddenly take up with Grant and throw it in his face.That was very low class as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby truelovepooh » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:38 pm

killjoy wrote:Ok maybe user is too strong of word.

But I do think she toyed with Alex's feelings why to much.I also think had it been a guy doing this to a woman many of the females on this board wouldn't be so supportive of the character than :P :lol: .

But I do think it was VERY wrong with what she did with the whole Grant thing.If she was not ready for a strong relationship or scared on how serious she and Alex was getting and wanted to break up with him.....well fine.But don't give him that speech she did and than suddenly take up with Grant and throw it in his face.That was very low class as far as I'm concerned.


While I refuse to bad mouth another character to show my point I will say that guys on this show have done just that, in different ways of course but it's been done.

Grant has never really been a blurp on my radar as far as Isabel was concerned, the reason being is I believe we saw that yes Isabel did get wide-eyed at the prospect of dating an older guy, I hate to classify anyone so I will just use myself. When I was younger dating an older guy was something I very much wanted to do and did. Alot of girls for some reason find this exciting, in Isabel's case he was from out of town, a geologist and not connected in any way with anyone she knew or might of known. Isabel took a chance to do something she felt would be exciting, I personally didn't think he was cute and the geologist thing would be a turn off for me. In this way I think Isabel thought she could just have fun without the threat of anything happening and as a equal bonus it pissed off Max and Michael. When Grant was killed Isabel had already figured out that he wasn't that exciting and having him kidnap her and then be killed just enforced her idea that if the alien crap could hurt someone she half way cared about imagine what it could do to Alex.
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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby killjoy » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:21 am

truelovepooh wrote:......and the geologist thing would be a turn off for me.


Ok I have to ask :lol: :lol: What so bad about being a geologist :lol:

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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby Sternbetrachter » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:40 am

Grant has never really been a blurp on my radar as far as Isabel was concerned, the reason being is I believe we saw that yes Isabel did get wide-eyed at the prospect of dating an older guy
I'm sure he was more on Alex's radar
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Re: Discussion: Alex or Isabel

Postby cardinalgirl » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:05 pm

killjoy wrote:But I do think she toyed with Alex's feelings why to much.I also think had it been a guy doing this to a woman many of the females on this board wouldn't be so supportive of the character than :P :lol:


Well, Pooh doesn't want to badmouth another character, and that's generous of her, but I have to refute this as you've made a direct statement that I think I can argue in a fairly mathematical (Kay's rubbing off on me), unbiased way.

Your argument (more or less, correct me if I'm wrong) is centered around Isabel telling Alex one thing and then turning around almost directly and doing something different (saying she can't be in a relationship and then deciding to date Grant) and that if the gender portrayals were switched, females wouldn't be as quick to support a man for doing so, but there is such a specific example of this that happens on the show that I can't help but point it out.

In Cry Your Name, already nobody's favorite episode in here content-wise, though they're broken up and are attempting to move on, Max tries to help out Liz when he sees how very heartbroken she is over losing Alex, and at the end of the conversation, there's this:

Cry Your Name wrote:LIZ: OK. Thank you very much for the macaroni and cheese, and, um, thank you for listening. (walks to the door)

Just always be my friend. Will you do that, Max?

MAX: You know I will.


But then in the very next episode, when Liz decides to follow up on investigating Alex's death, something that I think you can agree she had a right to do, Max said this to her:

It's Too Late, and It's Too Bad wrote:MAX: Liz, if you go, our friendship is over.


So here is, in my opinion, an equal or greater point of a character going back on their word, with the gender roles switched, but at least in my experience with Dreamers, this isn't much of an issue afterwards. Personally I'm not much of a Max fan, but even I can't argue that he says any of this because he doesn't care about Liz.



As to Grant, if I can make a personal comparison? Because I've been in Alex's shoes on that standpoint, where I've been attracted to a guy who was also interested in me, but there were complications (not quite intergalactic ones, but still there. lol) and though he flirted with me and people joked that we'd probably end up married one day (so never going to happen, but that was then!) he did go out with other girls while I was away at school and whatnot, but it was more of a "biding his time" thing where he wasn't seriously interested in any of them, and I think that's all Grant was to Isabel, and that Alex knew that. If he didn't... well, he probably would have been too pissed off at her to strip-tease for her birthday, no? But instead he backed off a little bit, but made sure that she still knew he was there and more to the point there for her as a friend in the meantime. But that's all just personal conjecture. *shrugs*


P.S. But Pooh! He was a cool geologist. With neat electrical toys and whatnot. :lol: ROCKS ARE COOLER THAN YOU THINK!

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