Was Michael Abusive?

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killjoy
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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby killjoy » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:47 pm

xmag wrote:
killjoy wrote:You know actually if you go by what happend on the show you could make the case that Maria not Michael was the one who was abusive.SHE was the one who smacked Michael around hitting him in the back of the head. :lol:


She did it once! I don't call that being abusive, considering the context, aka finding the guy she was madly in love with at night, in another's girl's apartment, said-girl only wearing a towel and saying that Michael was a great kisser. Michael got away lightly, Maria could have slapped him or punched him. She reacted like a normal girl, not like an abusive person.


Oh well....she was the one who did the hitting in the relationship...and seeing that's what we're talking about here :P :lol:

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby nibbles2 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:51 pm

killjoy wrote:
xmag wrote:
killjoy wrote:You know actually if you go by what happend on the show you could make the case that Maria not Michael was the one who was abusive.SHE was the one who smacked Michael around hitting him in the back of the head. :lol:


She did it once! I don't call that being abusive, considering the context, aka finding the guy she was madly in love with at night, in another's girl's apartment, said-girl only wearing a towel and saying that Michael was a great kisser. Michael got away lightly, Maria could have slapped him or punched him. She reacted like a normal girl, not like an abusive person.


Oh well....she was the one who did the hitting in the relationship...and seeing that's what we're talking about here :P :lol:


Also, when he called her honey in 285 south, she kicked him. :lol:

But that slap has so much to answer for - she slapped him one time for a very, very good reason and in every fic by a non candy writer since she's been portrayed as a violent person who slaps Michael for every slight indiscretion and remark.

Does anybody ever label Liz abusive after she violently whacked Max with a mini-golf club in season three? I think not. :lol:

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby spacegirl23 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:48 pm

Maybe they meant verbally, emotionally or mentally?

Coz he wasn't the bestest boyfriend, he was kinda crappy to her, but I don't remember him being really abusive.

About the relationship being a bad example, it's because they don't want girls to take it just like that, like it's okay for him to be mean and jackass-y.

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby killjoy » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:10 pm

Well Michael is a strange creature.He was raised in an abusive home where I'm pretty sure the showing and opening up of emotions weren't a common thing.Than you add into the fact he was having to keep a low profile and keep his mouth shut due to hide his alien side.All of this adds up to someone who doesen't have that much experince with his emotions and how to show/share them.

Same could be said for why Tess could be so cold.She was raised pretty much the same way by an alien psycho who taught her that the showing of human emotions made you weak.It wasn't until she started to live with Kyle and Jim did that change.Kyle showed her that having a human as a friend was ok and Jim showed her more love as a father figure in one day than Nesado did in the whole time she was with him.

Max and Isabel had it easy.They were raised in a normal,well off,loving home and by parents who loved and nurtured them.Which made it so much easier for them understand their emotions and to share them than it was for Michael and Tess.

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby Cocogurl » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:54 pm

The difference between Michael and Tess is that Michael didn't become a killer. Michael was a little intimidating to me when the show started, but he would never sell out the people he cared about the way that Tess did.

And as for Michael being abusive, I really don't think that 'abusive' is the right word. Michael could be really insensitive and self-centered, especially when it came to Maria, but not to the extent where we can really him abusive. And the thing is, ultimately, he became the kind of man that Maria had been asking him to become for two years and that still wasn't good enough for her.

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby nibbles2 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:11 pm

Maria was a young, emotionally fragile teenager who had been badly hurt by her father leaving when she was only a child. Being with somebody with even bigger emotional issues who was constantly being mean to her and dumping her whenever it got too intense wasn't a good relationship for her to be in. So I think it that sense it was abusive, althiugh I don't think that's the right word. But Michael wasn't doing it because he was mean or because he wanted to hurt her. Michael had the emotional intelligence of an egg and just genuinely wasn't able to handle the relationship. By the time he learned, Maria needed something else.

She had seen her friend lose his life because of the aliens, she saw Liz commit armed robbery, she had lost contact with all her other friends and had a good relationship with her mother all because of her involvement with the aliens. Taking time out from that to find herself was actually a pretty mature thing for her to do. I think it was something that was inevitable. It was impossible for the girls to stay in the alien abyss without taking a break from it. Liz had to get away too. Kyle and Jim wanted out of it too most of the time.

Yes it was shitty for Michael. But Maria didn't do it because Michael wasn't good enough for her.

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby xmag » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:10 pm

nibbles2 wrote:Maria was a young, emotionally fragile teenager who had been badly hurt by her father leaving when she was only a child. Being with somebody with even bigger emotional issues who was constantly being mean to her and dumping her whenever it got too intense wasn't a good relationship for her to be in. So I think it that sense it was abusive, althiugh I don't think that's the right word. But Michael wasn't doing it because he was mean or because he wanted to hurt her. Michael had the emotional intelligence of an egg and just genuinely wasn't able to handle the relationship. By the time he learned, Maria needed something else.

She had seen her friend lose his life because of the aliens, she saw Liz commit armed robbery, she had lost contact with all her other friends and had a good relationship with her mother all because of her involvement with the aliens. Taking time out from that to find herself was actually a pretty mature thing for her to do. I think it was something that was inevitable. It was impossible for the girls to stay in the alien abyss without taking a break from it. Liz had to get away too. Kyle and Jim wanted out of it too most of the time.

Yes it was shitty for Michael. But Maria didn't do it because Michael wasn't good enough for her.


Yes, exactly. Maria was on this quest to find herself in season 3, which was EXACTLY Michael had done in season 1. And Michael broke up with her because it was too intense and in the way of his search. Maria did the same thing so Michael and Maria were equal in that area.

So it wasn't that Michael wasn't good enough, it was that Maria needed to find herself.

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby killjoy » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:22 pm

xmag wrote:
nibbles2 wrote:Maria was a young, emotionally fragile teenager who had been badly hurt by her father leaving when she was only a child. Being with somebody with even bigger emotional issues who was constantly being mean to her and dumping her whenever it got too intense wasn't a good relationship for her to be in. So I think it that sense it was abusive, althiugh I don't think that's the right word. But Michael wasn't doing it because he was mean or because he wanted to hurt her. Michael had the emotional intelligence of an egg and just genuinely wasn't able to handle the relationship. By the time he learned, Maria needed something else.

She had seen her friend lose his life because of the aliens, she saw Liz commit armed robbery, she had lost contact with all her other friends and had a good relationship with her mother all because of her involvement with the aliens. Taking time out from that to find herself was actually a pretty mature thing for her to do. I think it was something that was inevitable. It was impossible for the girls to stay in the alien abyss without taking a break from it. Liz had to get away too. Kyle and Jim wanted out of it too most of the time.

Yes it was shitty for Michael. But Maria didn't do it because Michael wasn't good enough for her.


Yes, exactly. Maria was on this quest to find herself in season 3, which was EXACTLY Michael had done in season 1. And Michael broke up with her because it was too intense and in the way of his search. Maria did the same thing so Michael and Maria were equal in that area.

So it wasn't that Michael wasn't good enough, it was that Maria needed to find herself.


Ironic isn't it :roll: Michael breaks up with Maria in order to go on a trip to find himself and just when he realizes that he's supposed to be with Maria and want's to get back with her,she decides to go on her own trip ....as Kyle would say...that's just some bad karma. :lol:

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby CandyDreamQueen » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:44 am

Okay, first let me start off by saying I am not a Maria basher. This is just my opinion. But everyone always makes it seem like Michael was such a bad boyfriend. Yeah Michael pushed Maria away hundreds of time. But the difference is one: He told her from the beginning that he wasn’t a good person to be with. Two: she was the one that continually pursued the relationship. Michael was by no means the best boyfriend in the world, but he tried. Was Michael and Maria’s relationship abusive? I don’t think so. But I also don’t think Michael deserves all the credit for being the jerk in the relationship, because Maria was no “perfect girlfriend” herself.

nibbles2 wrote:Maria was a young, emotionally fragile teenager who had been badly hurt by her father leaving when she was only a child.


I understand how this conclusion can be drawn, and I’m sure there are theoretical examples that support it, but other than the scene where she said she imagined her father coming to sweep her and her mother away, I don’t think Maria was ever really portrayed as being too choked up about not having a father.

nibbles2 wrote:Michael had the emotional intelligence of an egg and just genuinely wasn't able to handle the relationship. By the time he learned, Maria needed something else.


Be that as it may, the fact can’t be ignored that Michael still completely changed who he was for Maria. That’s no small accomplishment for a normal person. The way she dumped him was kind of cold, in my opinion. To begin with, she wanted him to be someone that he really wasn’t, and when he became that person for her she wanted him to change something about himself that he absolutely could not. The fact that he was an alien.

nibbles2 wrote:She had seen her friend lose his life because of the aliens, she saw Liz commit armed robbery, she had lost contact with all her other friends and had a good relationship with her mother all because of her involvement with the aliens


All true. But Tess was responsible for Alex’s death. Michael couldn’t have been more supportive of Maria during that time. And it was Liz’s choice to become Max’s walking doormat in the third season. Michael didn’t even want to involve himself in Max’s whole “search for my son” saga. And neither of those things really had anything to do with Michael, other than the fact that, yeah, he’s an alien too. As a matter of fact, as ironic as it sounds, by the third season, Michael was the most human of all the aliens. Working two jobs, bowling with his homies lol

As far as the other friends thing? Well boohoo for her. So she lost contact with a few friends that she was obviously not that close with to begin with. Michael had no other friends beside Max and Isabel. Max definitely wasn’t Mr. Popularity and Isabel’s “friends” were obviously superficial. At least Maria had Liz and Alex. Her two best friends. And both of them were in on the secret. And of all the teens, I’d say Maria maintained the closest relationship with her parent than any of them. Including Kyle, and his father knew the secret.

All in all, my biggest problem with Maria dumping Michael was that her excuse for dumping him was that she didn’t want to be involved in all the alien stuff anymore. But there wasn’t even anything alien going on when she dumped him. At least not for her. And as far as the whole following her dream thing goes. Well Michael was supportive of that too. He was even protective of her, and for her to tell him that “They’re lives were no longer linked” when she was the one that involved him in the first place was a big slap in the face.

I know I kind of got off topic at the end there. But I just wanted to give my opinion on the whole Michael and Maria relationship drama.

<<<Candice>>>

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Postby nibbles2 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:02 pm

The reasons Maria gave for breaking up with Michael were pretty crap - though not completly unjustified. The whole thing was completely out of character for Maria, because for the two seasons before she had pursued her relationship with Michael with a vengence. It was another classic example of the writers screwing up a character in season three. It wasn't even something they developed. It was like they suddenly realised, oh crap we've been at this for three seasons now and we've never done a Maria centred plot before, I know lets have her break up with Michael. It was just crapness all round.

The annoying thing, is that it then became the stick for Maria haters to bash her with. 'What a bitch Maria is, Michael stayed on the planet for her and then she broke up with him.'

Ok, firstly, It was Michael's decision to stay. When he said he was going, she accepted that. She didn't ask him to stay. She didn't even call him a jerk for sleeping with her and then announcning that he was leaving the planet an hour later. He didn't stay for her. He stayed for himself because he loved her. But that shouldn't mean that Maria had to be with Michael for the rest of her life if it wasn't what she really wanted. Yet somehow, by staying on earth, Michael got a free pass after jerking her around for two years.

I really, really don't want to get into a Liz V Maria thing here, because I love both girls. I'm not saying this to bash Liz. But most Maria haters are Liz fans (and vice-versa). They have no problem with Liz walking away from an emotionally fragile Max after he had been abducted and tortured. They completely overlook how cruel it was for Liz to pretend to sleep with Kyle in order to break Max's heart. But at the same time they declare that Maria is the queen bitch for what she did to Michael. Why is it ok to forgive and even beatify Liz for her dumb decisions yet continually bash Maria for hers?

I don't think any of the main characters were bad or cruel (late season two Tess excluded).

I hated what Maria did. But I don't think it was the worst, most evil thing that anybody has ever done.I don't think that Michael was abusive, though I certainly wouldn't have put up with his behavior. I don't think Max was a bastard for sleeping with Tess. after every thing he had been though beforehand. I don't think Liz was a bitch for how she treated him after destiny even though some of it was horrible. I don't think Isabel was a bitch even though I hated that she married Jesse so soon after Alex's death.

Nobody set out with hurtful intentions. They were all human and teenagers and way out of their depth. They sometimes made stupid, selfish, misguided, unfathomable decisions that hurt other people. It's what teenagers and humans do. They make mistakes and they learn from them. I know I certainly did things in my teenage years that make me cringe with shame now.

What I like about candies is that we don't spilt into the Maria camp or the Michael camp and take sides against each other. We see the relationship as a whole and forgive and understand both characters for their flaws. Dreamers don't seem to be able to do that and even stargazers tend to be polarised into two opposing camps. If people could only extend the forgiveness they show their favorite characters/ ships to others, there would be none of this bashing and fighting.

Oh, why can't we all just get along? :lol:


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