Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

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Were MAx and Liz good for each other?

yes, definantly
71
69%
absolutely not
5
5%
a little bit of both
27
26%
 
Total votes: 103

pru
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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby pru » Mon May 10, 2010 1:06 am

IMO, Max and Liz were perfectly and amazingly right for each other and soulmates in every sense of the word. But the writers dropped the ball bigtime in season two and three. I also don't buy for one second that being with Max ruined Liz's plans of going to college since if they never got together or really met,she would have been dead by the gunshot wound she suffered and had no life at all.

I also disagree that Max was cheater. You can't cheat on someone if they broke up with you, which is what Liz did. But I do agree that Max should have used protection. But when you really think about it and Tess's plans she probably would have thought of some other way to trick Max into knocking her up.

Even though I don't believe for one second Tess ever loved Max at all. He was just a means to an end for her. All she cared about was herself. She proved that by mind warping and killing Alex and then trying to cover it up, and also by making that deal with Kivar to deliver Max, Michael, and Isabel to him on a silver platter, and her safety was on the premise that she be knocked up with Max's child.

Number three I do agree with. It pissed me off they had them robbing that store and acting like Bonnie and Clyde. I wasn't feeling that at all Plus, it was so out of character for them both.

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby nitpick23 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:53 am

Max and Liz were definitely better for each other. The whole first season and even parts of the second season showed that. When Max and Liz worked on a problem together they usually came up with great solutions. Max seemed to know that or why else would he go to Liz for help even after they had "broken up"?

Max didn't really cheat on Liz. As others have mentioned Max and Liz hadn't been dating, Liz told him to be with Tess, etc. Would it really have mattered if Max wore a condom or not? He was having sex with an alien that wanted his child, a little alien hocus pocus and the condom would have had a hole in it.

The series ended with Max and Liz going on the run but was that necessarily the end of the story?? The Evans would surely have started to look into dealing with the government and their try to assasinate their kids. I would guess that the feds would have been forced to see reason eventually and Liz and Max could have had their happily ever after.

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Sundae » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:01 pm

I voted, yes "perfect for each other."

I think they balanced each other out...well...perfectly really. Ying to the Yang and all that horseradish.

And really, I can however only say that they worked...emotionally and physically well together.

I almost wanted to agree with nitpick above and say that together they balanced each other out and came up with great solutions. But really that's not that case and season 3 is the greatest example.

But even in season 1 and 2. The problem I had with (and this revolves around Max) is once they were together...everyone else disappeared. Max would listen to Liz over Michael and Isabel. He only sought out Maria when he was having problems with Liz...part me of really hated that. That Max couldn't function without Liz, where as Liz could.

Also...Max had a habit of following Liz's advice and him being the leader, Michael and Isabel more often than not really got the short stick and it bugged me. Because you have two other people that need reassurance just as much and you're blowing them off. Even if its the wrong thing, when some needs it, they need it.

Its the same concept of someone dying and the grieving person asking irrational things. You don't tell them that they shouldn't think that way, that whoever died is gone and they need to move on. You comfort them, carry them until they can move on their own again...and I saw Michael and Isabel in the dust at times.

Before Liz, I think Max never could've been as great as he was with Liz. She was his life, his muse, his inspiration, his reason.

After Liz though...Max couldn't' function without her.

With Liz, they balanced each other out perfectly. Max was balanced, steady and knew what he wanted. And Liz held that control.
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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Coccy » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:05 pm

and I saw Michael and Isabel in the dust at times.


Max literally became dust once and almost no one cared


I think that Max always thought about the others the most (apart from the times where Liz was in danger ì'll give you that but did Michael think about Max and Isabel when he decided to stay in earth for Maria? He knew that on antar the war was awaiting for them and his family could be in great danger but he decided to stay for her), and the others took that for granted
being "the leader" (of what? of who? ) became the perfect pretext to put everything on his shoulders (especially when they needed someone to blame ) and they wanted to act as a group only when they disagreed with him
Both Michael and Isabel liked to tell him that he couldn't do this or that yet they didn't follow their own rules or they felt justified (ex: you can't love or be with Liz but i can date all the guys of roswell and i can suddenly make out with Maria. You can't use your powers to save a life but i absolutely need to use my powers for make up, listening to a cd, change my food, walk on people's dreams etc etc)
Apparently Max always had to comfort and understand everyone when they had a problem (even when they were wrong if i understood what you wrote) yet the same isn't expected from the other characters after Max got tortured by the FBI for example or when he had to say good bye to his son. And don't let me start about the third season when he died and came back. He's not their father, he's a teenager just like them all and it's unfair to expect only from him things that the others never did for him anyway.

If you see him as a selfish character that's ok but the others weren't better. You receive what you give and i don't think that the others deserved from him more than what they got.


Also...Max had a habit of following Liz's advice


that were good ones that also saved his butt and the group's many times. Not to mention that sometimes Liz was the only one who actually gave him advices.
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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Earth2Mama » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:12 pm

Hmmm ... I've got to say ... I'm 50-50 on this topic. They were both bad and good for each other, but it works out fine because it means that they balanced each other out.
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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Sundae » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:33 pm

Coccy:

It's a matter of opinion. No where did in my post say that Max DIDN'T struggle. NO where in my post did I say the others were perfect either.

We all don't interpret things the same way, nor do we view and see things the same way. I'd appreciate if you didn't try to dissuade me of my opinion and my thoughts.

Just because I say something negative about Max doesn't mean I don't like him or view his character as great at times or devalue him in anyway.

This thread was about Max and Liz...and I spoke in relation to that. Sorry if I didn't go into detail about every little thing each character did wrong or right. No one was perfect, Michael sure as hell wasn't, neither was Isabel or Max or any of the humans.

My whole idea with my post is that when it came to Max and Liz...everyone outside of them at times took a back seat at times. Again...opinion. If you don't agree, that's okay. But I'd appreciate if you don't try to dissuade me of my opinion either.

If you notice...I picked they were perfect for each other. Not half and half, and not, "not perfect" for each other. Despite my criticisms of Max's character...I still picked perfect for each other and the critisims I made were in relation to Max and Liz's relationship. I could've easily said no or said they weren't perfect for each other. I didn't.
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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Coccy » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:56 am

Do you say that to every person who replies to you and who doesn't agree with you?
It's a board you state an opinion and people can agree or disagree, in fact you disagreed with something that nitpick23 had previously said and you voiced your opinion just like i did in my post. Using your logic then were you trying to dissuade nitpick23 from her opinion? What makes your post more "legit" than mine and what makes my post automatically "dissuading"? No one said that you can't have an opinion but it seems that you got a bit offended by the simple fact that someone (me) disagreed

Just because I say something negative about Max doesn't mean I don't like him or view his character as great at times or devalue him in anyway.

even if you actually hated him no one says that you can't, but as long as people are civil they can disagree with your motivations and explain why (that is what i did). This doesn't mean that they want to brainwash you but even in your post you were trying to make a point and i guess that you hoped that people could understand what you wrote and believe that it made sense otherwise why write it?
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"You're what would bring me back.
Even if my molecules were spread out from here to whatever galaxy my home planet is in,
that wouldn't stop me. All my molecules would be like little homing pigeons.
They'd all zoom to you, and then I'd re-form." - Max Evans; Roswell High - The Watcher
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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Sundae » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:18 pm

Coccy wrote:Do you say that to every person who replies to you and who doesn't agree with you?
It's a board you state an opinion and people can agree or disagree, in fact you disagreed with something that nitpick23 had previously said and you voiced your opinion just like i did in my post. Using your logic then were you trying to dissuade nitpick23 from her opinion? What makes your post more "legit" than mine and what makes my post automatically "dissuading"? No one said that you can't have an opinion but it seems that you got a bit offended by the simple fact that someone (me) disagreed

Just because I say something negative about Max doesn't mean I don't like him or view his character as great at times or devalue him in anyway.

even if you actually hated him no one says that you can't, but as long as people are civil they can disagree with your motivations and explain why (that is what i did). This doesn't mean that they want to brainwash you but even in your post you were trying to make a point and i guess that you hoped that people could understand what you wrote and believe that it made sense otherwise why write it?


If you don't understand the difference between disagreeing with someone and stating the reasons why vs. dissuading someone of their opinion. I'm not sure what to tell you.
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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Roswellian117 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:59 pm

The proverbial question...

Were they or weren't they? That is completely just 50-50 right there because u can argue why they were and weren't. I think they were good for each other at times like when they were good and he wasn't being a control freak. Liz too though had her faults... I love Max and Liz as separate people and of course together... it is kind of a great love sort of thing... But soul mates? I mean he saved her life but what really is a soul mate? Wouldn't they have had to love each other in other lifetimes for that to be possible? I could be just talking out of my ass LOL... We don't know what could've actually been because honestly the show didn't get a chance to come full circle... Sometimes they were good and sometimes they were bad like any relationship... Doesn't mean they're not good for each other it's just life.

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Coccy » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:09 am

Sundae wrote:
If you don't understand the difference between disagreeing with someone and stating the reasons why vs. dissuading someone of their opinion. I'm not sure what to tell you.


perhaps you could teach me :wink:



back on topic


I think that they were good for each other although i think that sometimes the more you love someone the more you risk and can suffer in the bad moments, you're more strong when you're together yet you're more vulnerable when you aren't. People aren't perfect ditto for the relationships. But the point is that some people are simply perfect for each other.
I think that being together made it possible for them to really reach their full potential as individuals and show more layers of their personality that most likely they would never show with other people. Basically they discovered themselves and who they really are. Both M&L were control freaks, they were scared of the unknown and this repressed the more passionate and carefree side of their characters. When they fell in love and they finally were together they did things that they never did before.
Now i remember the scene from sexual healing when Maria said that Liz was unrecognizable and Liz replied that she was *herself* and the way she felt in that moment was the most real thing that she ever felt.
I also believe that the fact itself that their relationship wasn't always easy and they had to face many trials and tribulations made it possible for them to learn a good lesson, the fact that they had to live the now and appreciate what the present could give them, kiss like if it's the first and last kiss that you can share.
It was obvious to me that without each other they were miserable so even if their relationship was complicate and they had to "pay a price" for being together i think that it was worth it for them because in the end they were really happy only when they were together
they're also a good example of friends&lovers. The other was the only one who could really understand them, the only one who could really comfort them and who could see their tears and a more vulnerable side.

Roswellian117 wrote:But soul mates? I mean he saved her life but what really is a soul mate? Wouldn't they have had to love each other in other lifetimes for that to be possible?


You open an interesting discussion here.
I've read tons of theories about soulmates, many different interpretations. From what i understood the main interpretation is that people, or souls, can live many "lifes" and only in one of them they have, maybe, the chance to find someone who can really balance them out. This because finding your soulmate is rare and it's rare because ours isn't the only timeline and the only existing place in the universe. The point is that you find him/her. No matter when or where.
What a soulmate is? I think that it's the person with whom you share a connection that is totally irrational, it's a constant like if everything about your life tells you that you were supposed to find that person and you're lucky because if only one thing had happened differently you'd never met him/her. It's also the person who accepts you for who you really is, flaws included (this doesn't mean perfect relationship where everything is always easy.)
Max and Liz are considered soulmates because.. well they have that kind of connection, biggest example is when he died and she felt it and then she brought him back from death. His soul literally survived only for her, their love went beyond death. They had the ability to reach each other's souls. It's also the fact itself that Max saw her when he was a little boy and he instantly felt that she was the one for him (although his people programmed him to love another person)
When the original Zan lived Liz wasn't born yet. He died and the antarians cloned him, with all the planets in the universe they chose our planet and our race, with all the places in the world they chose Roswell.. and everything happened in the right moment because 40 years later Max was born and he could find Liz at the right age. Many coincidences (for example what if Jeff's first girlfriend didn't die? What if Kivar didn't kill Zan or he killed him into another moment?).
It really seems that Zan got the chance to find his soulmate through Max, he had to travel time and space in order to find her (Ronald Moore's citation)
I remember what dupe Ava said about her Zan. The fact that he was awaiting for someonelse. It was obvious to me that they were implying that Max found something that his dupe never got the chance to find maybe because he died too soon or maybe because a "Liz" for him wasn't born yet who knows.
Max said that the shooting was fate, maybe he was right. Also he always got flashes from the people that he healed but only Liz received flashes from him while he was healing her.
and what about FMax? Even when they tried to chance the future M&L still loved each other and married in both timelines. It's the epitome of meant to be.

Honestly i think that the word soulmates is overused in tv-shows, i love other couples that are called soulmates yet M&L are my only shipper that i can really call like that because they proved it to me, they kinda fit with the basic "requirements" (if we can call them like that) although the concept is surely up to different opinions and i think that it's complicate to develop it (maybe in sci-fi shows it's a bit easier) but they at least gave me something that made it possible for me to find the word believable when used to describe them. I also appreciate that unlike many other couples they never really called each other like that, it was more a matter of being like that than saying it, even after all the incredible things that happened to them and that they were able to overcome they never said that their relationship was more "special" than the others... they just wanted to love each other like everyone. And maybe this is another thing that made them more authentic in my eyes.
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"You're what would bring me back.
Even if my molecules were spread out from here to whatever galaxy my home planet is in,
that wouldn't stop me. All my molecules would be like little homing pigeons.
They'd all zoom to you, and then I'd re-form." - Max Evans; Roswell High - The Watcher
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