Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

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Were MAx and Liz good for each other?

yes, definantly
absolutely not
a little bit of both
Total votes: 102

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Tears_of_Mercury » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:38 pm

Well, Coccy, you really stated pretty plainly a lot of the reasons that I don’t ship Polar. I don’t know if I necessarily would have phrased it like you did, but that is neither here nor there. Especially since I think that bordering on bashing when it comes to UC couples is pretty much to be expected in the Dreamer forum – much like in the UC forums you won’t see Rebels singing Liz’s praises.

Now, in the interests of being situated firmly on middle ground, let’s run through a list of every unaddressed trauma that Liz or Max ever went through:


* almost died; or if her journal is to be believed, did die and was brought back to life. Which brings with it a whole other can of worms that was never once addressed.

* found out that her longtime crush was an alien.

* had one best friend threaten to turn said alien into the sheriff if Liz didn’t tell her what was going on; Liz’s other best friend later threatened and actually attempted to follow through with cutting her off completely if she wouldn’t tell him a secret that she’d said repeatedly wasn’t hers to tell. We never see either of them apologize for this.

* her grandmother, who we are lead to believe Liz is possibly closer to than either of her parents, dies – and Liz is actually in the room when it happens. By the next episode everyone has forgotten about this.

* her last safe haven, her diary, is compromised when someone who she’s done nothing but cover for and protect steals it and reads it. And apart from a bonding moment between Michael and Liz and a small voice-over at the end of the episode, we never see anything significant happen with that. Was Liz angry? Did she feel like her privacy had been violated? Did she have to seriously consider whether or not to continue keeping her journal after all of the questions about the FBI or someone else finding it were brought up? The most answer we get to that is a loose brick in the wall.

* She sees how precarious Max’s safety is not once but twice: both when he swerves to avoid the horse and blacks out and then when Michael gets sick in The Balance. And in The Balance, her concern and worry is in a sense used against her
by Max as a reason why they don’t belong together.

* Liz gets repeatedly shot down by Max.

* Michael and Isabel frequently make derisive comments not only to Alex and Maria but to her; and often, she is the target of their resentment not only because she is ‘taking’ Max from them but because it was her life in the balance that caused Max to let their secret out. Just think about the subliminal message that’s sending to her: “Your life is the reason for all of our problems. We’d probably prefer it if you were dead, and as it is we’ll never forgive Max for saving you.”

* starts getting flashes from Max; and oh, wait, suddenly Michael and Isabel, who have been out for her head since the start, are encouraging Max to sleep with her for information. And these flashes aren’t flashes of Max’s life; they’re about alien artifacts and the army and all manner of stars and planets. During all of this, when she finally is together with Max, Maria starts freaking out and basically says, “It’s okay for me, but not for you.”

* Topolski, someone who is obviously on the wrong side of sane, tricks her into a meeting and then fills her head with the very real threat she and all of her friends face.

* After finally getting together with Max, suddenly he is lusting after another girl – and Liz is an incredibly good sport about the whole thing. Then Max comes to declare his undying love for her, and five minutes later, in front of her family’s friggin’ diner, he’s making out with another girl. Then when he tries to apologize/excuse himself, he brings up flashes, which has previously been *their* thing, and basically makes her feel like shit. She still trusts him, goes into Tess’s home and gets into a pretty bad and dangerous situation, and only gets out by the skin of her teeth when Max comes to rescue her.

* and this, maybe the crowning moment in the history of all the overlooked crap that Liz went through: she is abducted by someone who looks exactly like her boyfriend, initiates a make-out session with him, and is bombarded with flashes of dead bodies and overall creepiness. Then she watches him dump a dead body, blow up a gas station, and all the while lead her right to the Special Unit while intimating that she is ‘bait’ for them to study and experiment on. She also has to hear him making sexual innuendos about her.

* her boyfriend is captured by monsters while saving her. She then proceeds to be told very nicely by the girl who had been manipulating his mind and forced him to kiss her that any attempts on her, Maria, or Alex’s part to help save Max will only strengthen the chance of a rescue mission failing.

* when she finally is reunited with Max, she has to drive a vehicle that is shot at, jump off a bridge, and then, probably suffering from mild to moderate hypothermia herself, basically drag him to an abandoned van. And after all of this does she get a reunion kiss with her boyfriend? Nope! She gets to see exactly what those monsters put him through because he cared more about saving her than his own safety.

* on top of all of this, she gets to watch Max get pretty scary and, to some extremely small degree, switch places with Pierce. Then she gets to watch Michael, who by that time she considers a friend, kill the monster who tortured her boyfriend.

* after making the choice to stick it all out after this and to be strong for Max, he makes the decision that instead of going home, even for a day to get well rested, he has to know what his “destiny” is and open the orbs. She follows him, and hears all about his great love – the girl who he’s been “drawn” to, ‘cheated’ on her with, and who helped rescue him. As if that’s not enough to make a girl feel terrible, she then finds out that he is the leader of an entire world and that enemies are coming in short order to blow up the podsters and anyone who gets in their way. Then Max, who has just finished telling her that she is his destiny, turns to Michael, Isabel, and Tess, and says, “It’s the four of us from now on.” So whether in the end it’s because she can’t deal with the King thing, can’t deal with the Reincarnated Bride thing, feels like she has proven and will continue to be a huge liability to Max, or she’s just so freakin’ screwed up she can’t even think straight, she runs away. And (from her perspective) no one even tries to follow her.


* he watched the girl that he loved get shot. Then he put not only his own life but the lives of the two people most important to him on the line to save her. After he told her he was an alien, she walked away.

* he gets basically strung up by his toes by Michael and Isabel for healing Liz. Then, Liz gives him his first clue about any possible relatives – that one of his elders is apparently a murderer. Then he gets manhandled and threatened by the sheriff.

* he’s consistently put in the middle of Michael and Isabel’s problems not only with each other but with Maria, Alex, and Liz. Through all of this, he’s basically damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t as far as everyone but Liz is concerned.

* he has to trust that Maria won’t tell his secret solely on Liz’s assurance.

* he has to look Liz in the face as she’s crying and tell her that he can’t save her grandmother’s life.

* Oh! And let’s not forget what else happens to Max this episode – he gets the crap kicked out of him by Kyle’s cronies, and then Kyle ever-so-politely tells him that he doesn’t like him talking to Liz – as if Kyle is Liz’s father to dictate who she does and doesn’t talk to.

* he repeatedly has to deal with questions, insecurities, and frustrating half-clues about his past and his origins.

* his brother almost dies and there’s absolutely nothing he can do about it.

* he’s basically forced to deal with the fact that with or without his approval, with or without a romantic relationship between the two of them, Liz – the girl he is in love with – is going to continually put herself on the line for him and possibly wind up paying the ultimate price for it.

* every time he makes any sort of progress in his relationship with Liz, the alien side of him – which he is just barely starting to come to terms with – somehow manages to screw everything up.

* Michael and Isabel both repeatedly go against his wishes, Michael many times endangering all of them – and yet it’s Max who is always blamed for everything because he healed Liz; Max who is always blamed whenever his temperature gets the better of him.

* Tess comes in, invades his mind and does God only knows what to his personality, emotions, and body – and all the time that she’s doing it, he is under the impression that she’s a 50+ year-old alien doing this for some sinister purpose.

* he finds out that he was, in Michael’s words, engineered, and that if Tess and Nacedo, the authorities on everything alien, are to be believed then he has no choice in who he ends up with or what path his life takes.

* Liz is kidnapped by Nacedo – while he’s out trying to get clues from Tess about the baby that his brother and sister may or may not be having together.

* he spends twenty-four hours in a government facility being psychologically, emotionally, and physically tortured. He sees his girlfriend killed before his eyes. And then once he is rescued and it finally looks like things might be looking up, Destiny comes calling and he is left, after the worst experience of his life, without the only person who can marginally comprehend what he is going through. Who is he left with? Michael, who is completely screwed up over having killed for the first time and has decided that, aside from his relationship with Isabel, everything about their so-called mission must be followed to the tee; Tess, who is too busy trying to infiltrate the group and get into his pants to ask him anything about how he’s doing; and Isabel, who is as always sitting on the fence between him and Michael and just generally not really helping him at all.

And all of this is only the first season. I’m sure I’ve missed some stuff, too. But as you can see, it’s exhausting just thinking about what they went through – and for them, many of these events were condensed into twenty-four or forty-eight hour periods. So, suffice it to say, without brining in TEOTW and the way that Future Max manipulated Liz, or the way that Liz manipulated Max both post-EOTW and CYN and how messed up that event left both of them, there’s sufficient evidence that there were much bigger forces than just “My bf/gf is being crappy to me” affecting their moods and behaviors.

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Coccy » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:55 am


you made a good summary of everything happened before season 3
"You're what would bring me back.
Even if my molecules were spread out from here to whatever galaxy my home planet is in,
that wouldn't stop me. All my molecules would be like little homing pigeons.
They'd all zoom to you, and then I'd re-form." - Max Evans; Roswell High - The Watcher
Dreamer Idolatry - M&L community || My arts

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Stargazer's Delight » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:34 pm

bluebballjumper wrote:Examples:

1) Liz was all set on going to Harvard and graduating first in her class, because of her relationship with Max, she didn't even get a chance to go to college.

2) Because of the whole relationship, Max became a cheater and a teenage father.

3) Both Max and Liz ended up in jail after holding up a store.

Well if Max hadn't saved her she wouldn't even be alive :roll: so something as trivial as going to Harvard hardly matters, even being chased by the FBI doesn't change the fact that after Graduation she could've taken the chance to go ..in the end she chose not to go.
But i do think if she did she wouldn't have got in anyway, through out the 3 seasons Liz clearly showed she wasn't that smart ( though she's not alone :wink: ) amazing how it's mentioned that she wants to go to Harvard & Likes science and suddenly in fiction it's blown way out of proportion that she's like the smartest person alive because we seen her in a science lab, Much like Alex the next Bill gates,Maria the singer & so on & so on :roll:

Max didn't cheat on her as they were not a couple at that stage, but he did cheat on himself.

Yep they both ended up in jail :lol: but why hold that against them? even jail birds should find love :lol:

Every character & couple had their good & bad between them.

Being a Stargazer myself, a ship that had less going for it than M/L and quite often attacked by idiots saying that they had nothing going for them. I can certainly find a good argument as for why not only A/I are better for each other but M/L & M/M aswell.

Through all their faults & bad decisions in the end M/L A/I & M/M are better for each other not because what little they did have going for them, but because through everything there was no one else better for them :wink:

Max & Liz aren't bad, only as bad as the person viewing them :wink:

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Hunter » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:21 pm

Personally, they were. They're each other's half. Tess, Nasedo came in the way and caused them to part. Everyone makes mistakes. Liz was stupid to let Max go, Max was stupid to beleive Liz and not his heart then use Tess for comfort by sleeping with her..seriously u don't sleep with someone just because your lover pushes you away...:s

They were naive. But Max stepped out of line by sleeping with Tess..it was uncalled for and I'll always dislike him for that. It should have been him and Liz...I always waited for that moment. He kinda wrecked the dreamer vision by sleeping with Tess and getting her pregnant. I hate that!

If I was Liz, I'd never let him go even I went through crap like that. And If I was Max, I'd never beleive Liz's lie about sleeping with Kyle because of that soul connection thing. They have a connection..how hard is to to trust each other?

I'd understand if they didn't have a connection but they do..How could Max do such a thing????

That should have never happened. Tess took away what Max could have offered Liz. I'm sorry but Max acted stupid...

I'd change everything if I could.

Liz should have got even with Max..I can't beleive she was so passive in S3...I guess she felt responsible for his mistakes but then again..he chose to sleep with Tess without protection and he seemed fine about it later since he was with her.

So Max wasn't good enough for Liz in S3 no, Liz was so understanding and nice to him. She needed to make him work harder. He's so lucky.

So I'm gunna rewind to S1 and say yes, at that time, Liz and Max were perfect for each other. Perfect.

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby trulov » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:03 am

I think this is an interesting question. I think the best way to respond is simply -

Sometimes loving someone is hard. Relationships are hard. People make mistakes - people get hurt and have regrets. But if you really love someone - really "I want to spend this journey of life with only you" love someone, then you get past the hurt and regret, you forgive the mistakes and struggle through the hard parts and realize, in the end, despite it all, it was worth it. Because you got to be with the person you love and who you know loves you in return.

This is how I view all good relationships and I don't think Max and Liz's is any different.

So I'm gonna say yes - they were good for each other - despite it all.

Also, I thought they were simply better people when they were together. They were both kind of asses when they were apart.

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby girl afraid » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:36 am

Maria can be not perfect but Michael isn't either. I had a boyfriend like him once and believe me, Maria is a saint sometimes. he told her many sweet things but he did hurt her too. a lot.
where you can find a "poor Michael" you will find a "poor Maria" and a "poor Liz" and a "poor Max" and a "poor Alex" etc etc.

So much word. It irks me to no end how Michael's mistreatment of Maria over the first two seasons is so easily overlooked, yet only her mistakes are called out on! Double standards much? All the main characters had their flaws but with the obvious exception of Tess (and there's a lot of grey area with her, to be honest), they were essentially decent, good-hearted people.

i hope that this is still the dreamer board (especially since it seems that CC fans can't post their opinion about UC into their boards)

There's a topic on the candy forum that the mods have kept open:

It stays open as long as there's no bashing. :)

To answer the question of this thread, I believe that M/L were good for each other. Max and Liz had pretty much everything thrown at them over the course of the three seasons but they were still able to come out of it at the end still together, still in love and stronger for what they had to overcome.
it's better to rise than fade away.

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Sin » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:36 pm

I do think that they were good for one another. I really don't think one needs to see any episode further then the "Pilot" to see that. Without Max Liz would have died. Period. Without Liz Max would have led a pretty empty existence and would have never lived life. He would have been with Tess and would have been executed. Was their relationship hard? Was it painful? Of course it was. But I really don't think they would have been as happy as they were with one another. I will say that I am a Spoiled Dreamer. I think season one is the best season and I think that was the season where their relationship was it's healthiest and at it's best. Season two was a dreadful season that destroyed the show. It pretty much obliterated the heart of the show. I think I read a quote where the creator said something like he had no problem making hard desicions with the characters if people kept on watching. Well I have to say that season two nearly made me stop watching and that is largely due to the fact that they completely massacred the character of Max.

As to the cheating thing. No I guess he didn't cheat. However I do feel that he did betray his love for Liz. I can understand why he slept with her out of pain, I get that. But I do not understand why he wouldn't use protection and I don't understand his behavior in ITBAITL or in BIY. I think those two episodes pretty much show Max at his absolute worst. He lost alot of integrity, character and morals in those two episodes and I didn't begin to look at Max the same way until CDB. Those two episodes decicrated Max's character and I hate the fact that I lost the likability I felt for Max during that period.

I have a major hiccup with Liz forgiving Max so easily. I don't understand how she could so easily move past the fact that Max slept with someone and created a child with her and that he was willing to leave the planet with them and not look back. I don't see how she could move past that and be mounting him in less then two months. Logically I understand the mind set that he was free to sleep with Tess but emotionally I think it would be a hell of a lot more difficult for her to swallow these pieces of information. More over I just don't see how she could get over the fact that Max was so horrid to her during BIY and ITBAITL. Not only the fact that Max didn't believe her but that he completely shut her out and didn't even try to understand the fact that she was grieving the loss of her best friend.

I guess there are alot of things that happended in the end of season two that made it really hard to be a dreamer. The Tess ordel made me loose alot of my love for Max's character just because he was turned into something that was so irrecognizable from the character her was just episodes before. I lost alot of understanding for Liz as she became a complete dormat for Max in season three who in the first half of the season pretty much only served to support Max and his needs and her opinons, feelings and life be damned. I still don't get how Liz could see Max and not see his affair with Tess and his son starring right back at her.

I think it's easier for me to emphasize with Liz and root for her because ultimately there was only one guy for her and regardless of everything she was still devoted to him and there was never a time where I believed that she didn't want their relationship or where she lost faith in what they had. The same can't be held true for Max as he was able to "move on" and share an intimate part of himself with someone else and that completely destroys the entire foundation that was set in season one. I can't be a Max apologist for that reason. ITBAITL and BIY completely destoryed his character in my eyes and it disheartens me because I think their relationship meant soo much more then that.

Were they good for eachother? Bottom line. Yes. But I do wish Max had more faith in what they meant to eachother. It seems that in season two and three it was always Liz who ended up caring the torch and the burden.

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Cocogurl » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:17 pm

I think they were totally good for each other. You can see how off balance they are when they're not together. And I think all the things that they've been through as a couple has only made them stronger because it. They survived skins, Tess, future Max, the white room and so many other things and I believe it really helped make the couple as strong as they were in final episode of Roswell. It's like they finally said, "Hey, this is enough. This is the person I want to be with and nothing's going to take from them again." That's why I love their relationship so much. They've been put through more than one couple should ever have to go through and they came out of all of it together. :D

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby killjoy » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:51 pm

I voted for a bit of both.

I think their whole relationship is like a circle that keeps going.

What I mean is.......By healing her Max did drag her into a whole dangerous life that put her in danger,ruined any future hopes she had of college and things like that.....BUT...on the other hand had he not healed her than she would have died and that makes what I just mentioned a moot point.

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Re: Were Max and Liz really good for each other?

Postby Anchespatoon » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:12 pm

They where definetly good for each other. 1. They saved their lives. 2. They explored the one true love !!! 3. Without Max Liz would have a career maybe, but maybe thats not what she REALLY wanted. I think she wanted to get away from a normal/boring live. Having something special and a task. And her task is to help the Aliens and Humans with all her cleverness. 4. Without Liz Max would have given himself to Tess and all this conspiracy and everything would be really dreadful
and so on...and so on...

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