Tess: Evil or Misguided?

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~*Sonia E.*~

Post by ~*Sonia E.*~ » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:50 pm

killjoy wrote::lol: Ok you might be right on that,since I refuse to watch season three.I might have missed a lot there :lol:
Future Max happened in S2, it was the fifth episode called The End of the World. And he didn't seem like a mindwarp from Tess because Future Liz was seen with him in the beginning, and some say that it was all Future Liz's plan in the first place. She must have been one smart cookie after all. :wink:

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Aoedele
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Post by Aoedele » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:42 pm

Tess did manipulate Michael and Isabel into having those dreams, and mindwarped Max's sexual thought of her. Isabel confronted her about it, can't recall which episode, and she somewhat confirmed it. Think about it, all those weirds dreams started when she arrived. Tess' agenda was evil from the get go, even one of the producers stated what Tess did was planned all along. It could have been executed better, but we are talking Roswell writers here.
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Post by Calinia » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:19 pm

Aoedele wrote:Tess did manipulate Michael and Isabel into having those dreams, and mindwarped Max's sexual thought of her. Isabel confronted her about it, can't recall which episode, and she somewhat confirmed it.
I can't say I remember that. Isabel did confront her, but that was *not* about the dreams, Tess had nothing to do with them. It was only about all the thoughts Max had been having about her, and Tess didn't confirm it, the way I saw it, she ignored Isabel's interruption and kept on talking, explaining her ability to mind-warp to her.
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Post by Raychelxluscious » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:48 pm

Calinia wrote:
Aoedele wrote:Tess did manipulate Michael and Isabel into having those dreams, and mindwarped Max's sexual thought of her. Isabel confronted her about it, can't recall which episode, and she somewhat confirmed it.
I can't say I remember that. Isabel did confront her, but that was *not* about the dreams, Tess had nothing to do with them. It was only about all the thoughts Max had been having about her, and Tess didn't confirm it, the way I saw it, she ignored Isabel's interruption and kept on talking, explaining her ability to mind-warp to her.

Agreed. Whole heartedly. As far as I'm concerned, Tess did *nothing* to trigger those dreams, aside from her arrival. There was no mindwarp involved. And until I read otherwise from the transcripts, that's what I'm going to believe. :)

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Post by DreamKeeper » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:44 am

My opinion, which is mine, for what it's worth.

I absolutely think that Tess was mindwarping Max when she got to Roswell.

She said that the dreams were there to awaken them. Michael and Isabel had dreams. They happened while they were asleep, which was pretty clear by the way that Isabel would come flying up in her bed, hair flying and bosom heaving.

When Max had his first mindwarp, he was in the Crashdown having conversation with Isabel and Liz. Tess walked in, sat down, he stared at her and suddenly he saw the two of them standing and holding hands, and he's gazing into her eyes. When he came out of it, he looked like Isabel did when Tess mindwarped her at Eagle Rock - sort of like "what the hell just happened?"

He goes to kiss Liz in the back room, and the same thing happens. He is suddenly seeing Tess, they are kissing, and he snaps out of it and sees Liz again, and he has that same look.

The most convincing one for me was the chemistry room. He's suddenly making out with Tess on the lab table, practically going at it like bunnies, and when he snaps out of it his sleeve is on fire and he hadn't even noticed it?

Those weren't dreams. They happened while he was wide awake and he looked confused and upset, like he'd lost a piece of time - very much like the way Isabel looked when Tess gave her the little demonstration at Eagle Rock.

I think what Aoedele was referring to was this:

TESS: I made you think something was happening right in front of you when it really wasn’t.

ISABEL: That’s what you did to Max, isn’t it? That’s why he had all those thought about you.

TESS: I can only keep it going for a little while.

Granted, they were in the middle of a crisis, but you'll notice that Tess didn't deny it. There might have been some dreams in there when Max was asleep, but those visions that Max had at the beginning when she first got there - for my money, those were all Tess.
Last edited by DreamKeeper on Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Aoedele » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:14 am

DreamKkeeper thanks for your analysis, I 100% agree. People interpret each episode according to which character and situation they like or dislike. Proof is proof. Tess was manipulating the aliens starting from Crazy. She made them feel and see all those things. You can not convince me otherwise.
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Post by AngelicFairy » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:16 am

People interpret each episode according to which character and situation they like or dislike.
Maybe they do that because that's the only way to make sense out of bad storylines? :(
Tess did manipulate Michael and Isabel into having those dreams, and mindwarped Max's sexual thought of her. Isabel confronted her about it, can't recall which episode, and she somewhat confirmed it. Think about it, all those weirds dreams started when she arrived. Tess' agenda was evil from the get go, even one of the producers stated what Tess did was planned all along. It could have been executed better, but we are talking Roswell writers here.
I agree with you about the dreams. While I never really questioned that the M/T, Mi/I "destiny" was real, (on Antar) I think the dreams and flashes were warps from Tess. All that "awakening" stuff just seemed like a load of bull to me, and a little too convenient since the stars apparently aligned to awaken them all when Tess started lurking around.
She made them feel and see all those things. You can not convince me otherwise.
Well, you're not the only one who thinks that way, Isabel thought she was manipulating her too at one point...

ISABEL: That’s enough, both of you. Do you ever stop to ask how I feel? God. No, you’re too busy deciding who’s right to notice that this is happening to me, too. Oh, God. Whatever Tess did when she was here yesterday, the sugar cubes, the...I think she made me have that dream.

and...

(Isabel’s bedroom.)
ISABEL: She really scared me, Max. It was like I lost a few seconds of time, and when it was over, I wasn’t even sure if what I remembered had happened or not. Is that what she did to you?
MAX: Kind of. It was like she could make my mind go places I wasn’t taking it.
ISABEL: How about your body? I mean, did you feel like something inside of you was changing...like waking up?
MAX: Something primal.
ISABEL: Instinctive.
MAX: Something not human.


She was definitely doing something to them. :? :(

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Post by Raychelxluscious » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:25 am

Aoedele wrote:DreamKkeeper thanks for your analysis, I 100% agree. People interpret each episode according to which character and situation they like or dislike. Proof is proof. Tess was manipulating the aliens starting from Crazy. She made them feel and see all those things. You can not convince me otherwise.
If *you* want to believe that it's "proof". Go right ahead, and didn't tell you to think otherwise. You said nothing can convince you that she didn't mindwarp them - I said that not three posts early. It's a moot point. Let's get over it.

Back to DreamKeeper's post. I appreciate you bringing that quote to our attention, but just like you said Tess didn't deny it - I don't feel that she conceded the point either.

I'm a little confused. When did she mindwarp Isabel at Eagle Rock? It's been so long since I saw the last few episodes that I can't remember that scene clearly...Can you refresh my memory?

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Post by Calinia » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:27 pm

DreamKeeper wrote:I think what Aoedele was referring to was this:

TESS: I made you think something was happening right in front of you when it really wasn’t.

ISABEL: That’s what you did to Max, isn’t it? That’s why he had all those thought about you.

TESS: I can only keep it going for a little while.

Granted, they were in the middle of a crisis, but you'll notice that Tess didn't deny it. There might have been some dreams in there when Max was asleep, but those visions that Max had at the beginning when she first got there - for my money, those were all Tess.
That's the scene I was referring to as well, but it's a bit misleading to stop there with what Tess was saying. This is what Tess said after Isabel confronting her:

"I can only keep it going for a little while. After you get Max to clear the room, I’m going to go into Pierce’s head, distract him. Hopefully I can keep it going long enough so that Michael and Nasedo can get Max out of there."

To me, it sounds like Tess is concentrating on the important matter at hand - saving Max's life - and ignoring Isabel going off-topic. She's explaining her power and the extent of it to Isabel so that she knows what she's trying to do. The fact that Tess can only keep it going for a little while is pretty important in regards to the situation, I don't see it as an answer to what Isabel said.

While Tess mindwarping Max into those daydreams is a plausible explanation, it's not canon because the show never clearly stated what really happened.
AngelicFairy wrote:ISABEL: How about your body? I mean, did you feel like something inside of you was changing...like waking up?
MAX: Something primal.
ISABEL: Instinctive.
MAX: Something not human.[/i][/color]

She was definitely doing something to them. :? :(
I don't agree that she was doing something to them in regards to their feelings or dreams (even though I do think that it's possible - but not proven - that she mindwarped Max into the daydreams). You quoted it yourself, they felt like something inside them was waking up, changing, something instinctive, something alien. It makes perfect sense that the four square being united triggers some reactions in them. They were designed to recognize each other and designed to be together, so them reacting to each other is only logical. There is a difference between her doing something to them and something happening to them due to her presence.
Raychelxluscious wrote:I'm a little confused. When did she mindwarp Isabel at Eagle Rock? It's been so long since I saw the last few episodes that I can't remember that scene clearly...Can you refresh my memory?
Tess mindwarped Isabel very briefly (making her believe that Tess was being dragged away by agents) while they were at the Eagle Rock Military Base in order to demonstrate her power before explaining the plan to get Max out of there to Isabel. Here's the transcript of the scene:


ISABEL: So, I don’t understand. I’m going to dream walk to give him the plan, but what are you going to do?

(An agent suddenly appears, and carries Tess away. Isabel goes to follow, when suddenly it’s over, and Tess is beside her.)

TESS: It’s ok. It’s ok.

ISABEL: Oh my god, what just happened?

TESS: I made you think something was happening right in front of you when it really wasn’t.
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Post by DreamKeeper » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:43 pm

I don't see any compelling reason as to why Tess wouldn't mindwarp Max. I can't think of any good reason why she would suddenly become all pious and not use her ability to get his attention a little faster than waiting on the dreams to kick in. If Tess was raised by Nasedo to believe that Max was hers, that she had some divine right to him, why wouldn't she mindwarp? Especially if she knew that Max was all into Liz and it was a faster way to get his attention? She wasn't raised with a whole lot of scruples. With the upbringing that is brought up to explain why she's just misguided, and not evil, it would be in character to believe that she would mindwarp Max.

The experiences that Michael and Isabel had were dreams while they were asleep. Max's experiences were radically different. He was awake, he lost time. Isabel said to Tess "that's what you did to Max" and she didn't deny it. Tess was raised by Nasedo to use any advantage, and her mindwarping was an advantage to get Max's attention, unsettle him, and start driving a wedge between him and Liz. It would be perfectly in character for her to use her skill, and much less in character for her not to. She's mindwarped Max at least one other time as well, which would be when she had him believing the baby was sick.

I'm sure Max had a dream or two in there. When he was in his bed and woke up to find Tess straddling him, he had been having a dream. That was different, and more in keeping with what Michael and Isabel were having when they were asleep. Nobody dreams so hard that they aren't aware when their flannel shirt catches fire. Max was completely involved in the scene Tess was showing him, and had no idea that his shirt was on fire. What she was showing him, for those moments, was reality to him.

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